I ran across this while looking at sausage web sites. Paraphrased: ( you should not attempt to cure pork that has been frozen regardless of how it is thawed as there is only a 50-50 chance it will take the cure)

I have never had this happen to me as I have always used fresh pork for curing but thought I would throw it out for comments.

The pork butt for my Buckboard bacon and the pork loin for my Canadian bacon that I cured were both frozen and then thawed before curing. I had no problems with cure penetration or final product results.

But I have never cured sausages, don't know about that.

complete and total bollocks.
curing is a chemical reaction between nitrous acid and proteins - freezing has no effect on this process.

dunno where you read that but the words 'arse and elbow' spring to mind :-)

Interesting if it's true. I've got a butt in the freezer waiting on me to finish finding all the other stuff I need to get started. And what about Sam's and Wally World etc? I'm just guessing but I would guess that all of them ship a frozen product unless they double the price and advertise how fresh it is.

Just curious- where did you read that? If you don't want to post (can't remember if that's allowed here or not anymore) how about a PM?

I'm sitting here trying to think of the nearest place that I could get fresh meat and boy I hope that not being able to use frozen meat is just a false fact getting passed around!

This is the link I found this by accident at.
http://www.askthemeatman.com/answers/answer_to_freezing_wild_pork_for.htm

all my CB's and BuckBoard bacon, have ALL been frozen, and ALL took the cure just fine..............

I have to agree, my cb was a frozen loin before I cured it and it came out fine as was my bacon...

sheesh - it's nonsense, just because you read it on the interweb doesn't make it gospel.
Meat is meat - the chemistry does not change, hell the curing process still goes on when you freeze cured meat - it's just very slow.

It's not a question of 'the cure taking'. It's not some potion whipped up by the local witch doctor. It's simple chemistry.
It's the same reaction that turns smoked meat pink - and how many defrosted joints haven't turned pink in a smoker - that's right none. 'cos just like un frozen meat they contain protein that reacts with the nitrous acid produced when nitric oxide (produced as a side product of the wood burning and in the breakdown of nitrite in cure salt) hits moisture.

Okay you can have your soapbox back now steve :bounce:

When I saw the link I was surpised myself. Just wanted to thow it out for comment as it seemed worth the effort to discuss. That ham in my freezer waiting to cure is shakin its boots now. LOL

Hey AV take chill pill or you will blow a gasket. I just read it and through it out for discussion. You know, thats what we all do here right? LOL

Okay you can have your soapbox back now steve :bounce:

my soapbox is in the other thread..........still waiting on you to show me in YOUR kutas, where he shows WEIGHTS in the recipes???????? :faint:

Have you read the part on cures ?
if not go do that :-)

got it right here...........where do you think i got that our OWN stomachs creates nitrates.........if YOU would read, our body NEEDS them........and NO where, in that section, does he mention WEIGHING...........still waiting on you to point that out in the book.............but you keep DODGING that question ! ! ! ! ! !

When cure is applied to the pork, a race begins between the nitrites and the spoilage. It is entirely possible that if spoilage is already occurring in your pork, or if the wrong amount of cure is applied, that it would lose the race and the cure would not be able to kill it. I have had this happen to me with a pork belly. Fortunately the spoilage was very evident from the smell, and I quickly threw it out.

Curing should be done with the absolute freshest meat available for best results. I think that is what was trying to be said.

complete and total bollocks

I like this saying...with your permission, I'd like to use it on a regular basis.

I ran across this while looking at sausage web sites. Paraphrased: ( you should not attempt to cure pork that has been frozen regardless of how it is thawed as there is only a 50-50 chance it will take the cure)


I have asked "The Meatman" to clarify and substantiate this claim in a question to the website. Will update should I get a reply.

I have asked "The Meatman" to clarify and substantiate this claim in a question to the website. Will update should I get a reply.



Here we go.... :pot: :lol:

Here we go.... :pot: :lol:

Ken - I would have waited longer but WD was NOT stepping up.

I have asked "The Meatman" to clarify and substantiate this claim in a question to the website. Will update should I get a reply.

No reply as yet from said "Meatman" one week later... Hmmm :noidea:

I like this saying...with your permission, I'd like to use it on a regular basis.

what are bollocks??? :noidea:

what are bollocks??? :noidea:

"Balls" in the OTHER English, or B.S. :lol:

"Balls" in the OTHER English, or B.S. :lol:

i knew that i just wanted someone to say " Balls " ....:bounce: :lol:

Nor 4 months later. "Mr.Meatman...bring me an answer..."

Nor 4 months later. "Mr.Meatman...bring me an answer..."

You still have your email to them??? PLEASE send it to me.. I would love to make a phone call for you...

While initially stating Pork, I believe his arguement was actually hams. Regardless. Here is some relative information.

The Effects of Freezing on the Processing Characteristics and Palatability Attributes
B. G. Sapp, D. D. Johnson, L. E. Eubanks, and J. H. Brendemuhl2


Introduction
Fresh pork legs are often stored for several months prior to processing in anticipation of peak consumer demand, which usually occurs during the holiday season. Traditionally, pork legs are frozen and stored in large batches that usually weigh 2000 pounds. If the pork legs could be de-boned prior to freezing and storage, considerable storage space could be saved, decreasing storage and cooling costs.

It is well documented that pork correctly packaged and held at a constant freezing temperature is of acceptable quality after six months of storage. Jeremiah (1980) demonstrated that fresh pork leg roast could be stored 196 days without loss of palatability attributes if protective wraps were used. However, problems could arise because of tissue disturbance caused by fat and bone removal. Buckley et al. (1989) stated that when storing ground pork patties, the reduction of particle size enhanced the rate of oxidative rancidity. Korschger and Baldwin (1972) found that freezing the partially cooked semitendinosus and semimembranosus muscles of pork for six months did not have an adverse effect on palatability.

A study by Callow (1952), which observed pork stored frozen for long periods of time, showed an increase in drip loss that was attributed to ice crystal formation and protein denaturation. Goldner et al. (1974) found that frozen pork loins had a greater drip loss than fresh pork loins, and Ashby and James (1973) showed a freezer shrink after thawing of .75% to .82% on pork loins, depending on the protective packaging used during storage.

The objective of this study was to ascertain if de-boning and vacuum packaging of fresh hams for frozen storage had any effect on the processing qualities and oxidative rancidity of the cured ham as compared to the traditional method of freezing and storing of fresh bone-in hams.

Experimental Procedure
Seventy-two fresh pork legs were randomly assigned to one of two processing methods where 1) the pork leg was completely de-boned and all external fat was removed, vacuum packaged, boxed and frozen at -18°F or 2) the pork leg was left intact and was bagged in a Mobil Chemical Poultry H. heavy bag, boxed and frozen at -18°F. Pork legs were stored frozen for 124 days at which time they were thawed at 40°F four days prior to processing. Upon thawing, the bone-in pork legs were de-boned and denuded as were the pork legs in processing method 1.

Prior to pumping, a .25 inch slice was taken for 2-thiobarbituric acid method analysis, or TBA (Lipid oxidation was by the 2-thiobarbituric acid method analysis). The semimembranosus and biceps femoris were pumped to 20% of green weight, hand massaged for two minutes, and stuffed into a 4-inch-diameter smoke-impregnated fibrous casing. The pork leg muscles were weighed before pumping, after pumping, after stuffing into the casing, at one hour (to account for drip loss), before cooking and after thermal processing. After stuffing, the injected pork legs were allowed to equilibrate overnight at 40°F and then cooked to an internal temperature of 150°F. At 24 hours after cooking, the hams were sliced and vacuum packaged to obtain samples for TBA analysis and sensory and visual appraisal. Slices for sensory panel color and visual evaluations were .25 inches thick while the slices for TBA analysis were .1 inches thick. TBA values were measured at weeks 1, 4 and 7 of retail display storage at 40°F. Ham slices were visually evaluated weekly starting at week 0 through week 5 of storage at 40°F.

Ham slices were evaluated daily by a trained, five-member panel during five days of storage in a retail meat case (39-42°F). Samples were displayed under GE "natural" fluorescent lighting. Ham slices were evaluated for: muscle color (8 = very light pink; 1 = very dark pink), muscle discoloration (8 = no discoloration; 1 = 100% discoloration) color uniformity (6 = uniform color, 1 = extremely uneven color) and purge (6 = non detected; 1 = excessive purge).

For sensory evaluation, the ham slices were evaluated by an 11-member, trained panel for: juiciness (8 = extremely juicy; 1 = extremely dry), flavor intensity (8 = extremely intense; 1 = extremely bland), overall tenderness (8 = extremely tender; 1 = extremely tough), saltiness (8 = none detected; 1 = extremely salty) and off-flavor (6 = none detected; 1 = extreme off-flavor). Samples were randomly assigned to a sensory evaluation period.

The experimental design was a split plot for the freezing treatment. Data were analyzed using the general linear models procedures of SAS (SAS, 1985). Interactions within treatment groups, least square means and appropriate standard errors are presented.

Results and Discussion
Fresh pork legs stored intact (de-boned after freezing and thawing) resulted in cured ham slices that had greater cooking loss and higher salt content than slices from fresh pork legs frozen and stored boneless and vacuum packaged (Table 1).

Table 2 shows that de-boning the fresh pork legs before freezing significantly increased the percent of moisture lost upon thawing. This could be explained by the destruction of the cell wall by ice crystal formation and the de-boning procedure. There was a greater percent of brine taken up by the muscles from the fresh pork legs that had been frozen after de-boning. Muscles from fresh pork legs de-boned post-freezing lost a higher percent of their weight in the 24-hour equilibrium period than those hams boned pre-freezing. This might suggest that boning prior to freezing as compared to boning after freezing had no influence on the protein's ability to bind water.

Table 3 shows that de-boning before freezing had little effect on any of the retail storage characteristics. There was, however, a significant difference (P < .05) in the purge loss for week two between the two storage treatment groups. Although this difference was statistically significant, the difference was not practically different. The slices from fresh hams stored de-boned and vacuum packaged had lower TBA values than ham slices from fresh hams frozen bone-in and not vacuum packaged. Vacuum packaging could account for the difference in TBA values especially before pumping, where the differences were even greater. TBA scores of cured ham slices stored for seven weeks showed no difference as time of storage increased, but there was a significant difference between boning treatments. Cured ham slices from hams de-boned before freezing had a significantly (P < .05) lower TBA scores than did the cured ham slices from hams boned after frozen storage. Nevertheless, the scores were so low that the typical consumer could not detect any off-flavor. This assumption is supported by sensory evaluation, which detected no off-flavors for any of the ham slices.

Fresh ham, frozen bone-in, produced cured ham slices that were scored higher in juiciness, tenderness and saltiness by sensory panelists than were ham slices from fresh hams boned and denuded prior to freezing (Table 4). This was in agreement with the data in Table 1, which shows that freezing hams bone-in resulted in cured slices that contained a higher percent salt.

Summary
A study was conducted to determine the effects of freezing fresh pork legs whole vs. deboned on the processing characteristics and the palatability attributes of ham slices. Within this study, half of the pork legs were de-boned before freezing, as opposed to bone-in storage, in order to determine the effect of storage method on the above traits. De-boning pork legs before frozen storage did result in some changes in curing characteristics and taste of the ham. Finally, although pork legs frozen bone-in had more desirable palatability scores and proximate composition, the changes were of no practical difference and therefore boneless storage of fresh hams may be a viable method.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AN202

In other words...Meatman's fulla shit.

You still have your email to them??? PLEASE send it to me.. I would love to make a phone call for you...

I looked..No, Ken was too long ago.

In other words...Meatman's fulla shit.


Eberbodys full of shit once in a while...:lol:

Not lately!:eek: There's a bug goin round here prevents that, I can attest!

With all the pork I've ever cured, a great deal of it haven been froze, never had a problem curin it.

Got get em Ken an Rich!:sausage:

Summary
A study was conducted to determine the effects of freezing fresh pork legs whole vs. deboned on the processing characteristics and the palatability attributes of ham slices. Within this study, half of the pork legs were de-boned before freezing, as opposed to bone-in storage, in order to determine the effect of storage method on the above traits. De-boning pork legs before frozen storage did result in some changes in curing characteristics and taste of the ham. Finally, although pork legs frozen bone-in had more desirable palatability scores and proximate composition, the changes were of no practical difference and therefore boneless storage of fresh hams may be a viable method.


In other words...Meatman's fulla shit.

I like Rich's summary better. :thumb:

Dave