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  • Allrighty Sous Vide folks

    Looking to hit up on Phil, Cheryl, Mark, and others with Sous Vide equipment and the thoughts they may have on a question. As most of you all know aboot 85% of the meat that comes into my house is self harvested/butchered.

    And of that 85%, 100% of it is processed by me start to finish. So the question I have is, being I vacupack everything, would it be beneficial to me to add seasonings to precut choice steaks precut in serving sizes? Right now I freeze say a chunk of backstrap big enough for a meal and do the final steak cut after I remove from freezer thinking the bigger chunk i leave it in the less chance of freezer burn. Not that would really be an issue since its vacpacked anyway.

    So since I am entertaining this idea of getting a Sous Vide cooker, I am also looking at how I put my product away for storage in the most beneficial manner. I guess right now the biggest downside I see is if I decided to change the destination for said cut of meat, say from a possible Sous Vide candidate to say jerky, sausage, or anything else which may not want the seasoning pre added. That and what effect or how much effect would adding salt to meat going to the freezer be.

    I am a little hesitant because of some of the above but just thought I would throw it out there and see what all the gang has to say. TYIA
    Charbroil SFB
    GOSM
    MES
    Dutch Ovens and other CI
    Little Chief, Big Chief, No Name water smoker
    Weber 22" gold, Smokey Joe, WSM 22"

    Smoked-Meat Certified Sausage Head


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  • #2
    Yea you could pre-season before freezing, I do.
    For the things you cannot pre season, just leave the bag a little longer so you have enough room to can open it and reseal it.
    Mark
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    "Likes smokey old pool rooms, clear mountain mornins. Little warm puppies, children and girls of the night"?
    Smoked-Meat Certified Sausage Head!

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    • #3
      That's a can of worms right there. Personally, I wouldn't, especially using salt on pork. I think it might dry it oot or make it hammy tasting. As far as beef or lamb goes, maybe alright, butt I like to season just before I cook. Plus, if the possibility of redirecting the product to other uses exists, no, don't do it.

      Just my 2 pennies...
      Last edited by HawgHeaven; 03-13-2014, 05:35 AM.


      Drinks well with others



      ~ P4 ~

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      • #4
        That, my friend, makes it an absolute to go sous vide.

        1. Get meat.
        2. Cut meat to serving sizes, add seasonings.
        3. Vac, pack & freeze. Size, thickness, and shape makes no difference.

        4. Cooking time, take frozen bagged meat, and dump bag in sous vide cooker, no need to thaw. "Set it & Forget it". Go watch TV, or shopping. Fool proof, never overcooked/under cooked meat.

        5. Un-bagged cooked meat, Smoke, grill, fry, or BBQ, with perfect done-ness and serve.


        dcarch

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        • #5
          From a research perspective not experience.
          What I have read you can, sear, jaccard, season, seal, sous vide, (ice bath for lower temps), and freeze, then follow steps 4-5 that dcarch posted.

          A presear will help limit the amount of overcook from the 2nd sear after the bath. I will be testing this out next week.

          Also it is suggested to presear before puncturing whole muscle meat.

          Moisture escapes when muscle fibers tighten when heat is applied squeezing out their liquid. Jaccard will tenderize the meat without loosing much liquid Because it supposedly separates muscle fibers, but doesn't actually cut them. This reduces the "squeezing" effect.
          I'm not sure of the science but I do get a more juicier piece of meat when using a jaccard, but you can over do it with the jaccard making a "burger like texture" steak.

          Meats can also be precooked at much lower temps such as rare, quickly placed in an icebath and frozen just make sure to rely on a proven/reputable source if cooking below 130 degrees.

          I have been playing around with sous vide cooking a very short time but I am learning quick and documenting every minute detail.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SQWIB View Post
            From a research perspective not experience.
            What I have read you can, sear, jaccard, season, seal, sous vide, (ice bath for lower temps), and freeze, then follow steps 4-5 that dcarch posted.

            A presear will help limit the amount of overcook from the 2nd sear after the bath. I will be testing this out next week.

            Also it is suggested to presear before puncturing whole muscle meat.

            Moisture escapes when muscle fibers tighten when heat is applied squeezing out their liquid. Jaccard will tenderize the meat without loosing much liquid Because it supposedly separates muscle fibers, but doesn't actually cut them. This reduces the "squeezing" effect.
            I'm not sure of the science but I do get a more juicier piece of meat when using a jaccard, but you can over do it with the jaccard making a "burger like texture" steak.

            Meats can also be precooked at much lower temps such as rare, quickly placed in an icebath and frozen just make sure to rely on a proven/reputable source if cooking below 130 degrees.

            I have been playing around with sous vide cooking a very short time but I am learning quick and documenting every minute detail.

            SQWIB,
            I'll keep my eye out for some acreage up here for you.
            Your cooking's getting too fancy---You could be run out of Philly soon !!!

            Just saying',

            Bear
            Vietnam Vet---9th Inf. Div. Mekong Delta (1969)
            Easy to follow Step By Steps: Pulled Cured Boston Butt Ham and Buckboard Bacon--Smoked Salmon-- Bacon-On-A-Stick--Bacon (Extra Smokey)--Boneless Cured & Smoked Pork Chops & CB--Canadian Bacon & Dried Beef--Ham Twins (Double Smoked)--Double Smoked Hams X 4--Bear Logs (All Beef--Unstuffed)--Smoked Bear Loaf (All Beef-Mild Hot)--Prime Rib (My Best ever)--Another Prime Rib--Chucky (Pulled Beef)--Twin Chuckies--Pork and Beef Spares--Rare Beef (for Sammies)--Raspberry Chiffon Pie---


            Mom & 4 Cub litter---Potter County, PA:

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            • #7
              Not meaning to disagree, because that's the terminologies commonly everyone uses.

              It would be nice if there is a distinction between "chewable" and "tender".

              Jaccarding, pounding, thinly slicing meat, etc. cannot tenderize meat. They just make meat more "chew-able".

              "Low & Slow" and some chemicals can tenderize many meats.

              dcarch

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HawgHeaven View Post
                That's a can of worms right there. Personally, I wouldn't, especially using salt on pork. I think it might dry it oot or make it hammy tasting. As far as beef or lamb goes, maybe alright, butt I like to season just before I cook. Plus, if the possibility of redirecting the product to other uses exists, no, don't do it.

                Just my 2 pennies...
                I'm with poppop.

                Herbs and spices - yes, salt and sugar no.

                Salt and sugar are water soluble and will dry the meat out by changing the osmotic potentials and extracting water from the meat. Unrefined salt will also cure it over time.

                The flavourings in herbs and spices are based almost exclusively around volatile oils. These will flavour the meat but not being soluble in water will not change the osmotic potentials and thus won't extract any water from the meat.

                So if it were me, I'd add herbs and spices when vacpacking - but only add salt or sugar after removing from the sous-vide and before searing.

                If you want to test a commercial spice mix - simply get a small piece of meat, dry it on kitchen paper and sprinkle a small amount of the spice mix on the surface and leave it for an hour or so.
                If the surface remains dry
                if not - there's salt or sugar in there somewhere and you don't wnat to use it in vacpacked meat
                Made In England - Fine Tuned By The USA
                Just call me 'One Grind'



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                • #9
                  ^^^ x2

                  with one additional suggestion...

                  Place the desired herbs/spices in a sachet of food grade plastic wrap. Lay out the herbs and spices on a small piece of plastic wrap, roll the wrap around them, cut off the ends of the wrap and lay that over the meat before vac sealing. The aromatics and spices will infuse the meat during cooking, but you will avoid unbalanced flavors. For example, if you put a sprig of fresh rosemary directly on a piece of meat and then vac seal, the meat that was in direct contact with the sprig will have much more rosemary flavor than the meat further away after cooking.
                  Yoder YS640, Weber Performer Platinum, Weber OTG, Weber Q220, Traeger BBQ125 Executive
                  ThunderDome Vortex, Smokenator 1000, GrillGrates, A-Maze-N Tube Smoker (6" & 12")
                  Weed Dragon Torch with Squeeze Valve (VT2-23SVC), Looftlighter, BernzOmatic High Intensity Torch Head (TS8000)
                  Tappecue, Maverick ET-732 (x2), Maverick PT-100

                  SousVide Supreme, VacMaster VP112 (chamber), VacMaster Pro305 (suction)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by curious aardvark View Post
                    I'm with poppop.

                    Herbs and spices - yes, salt and sugar no.

                    Salt and sugar are water soluble and will dry the meat out by changing the osmotic potentials and extracting water from the meat. Unrefined salt will also cure it over time.

                    The flavourings in herbs and spices are based almost exclusively around volatile oils. These will flavour the meat but not being soluble in water will not change the osmotic potentials and thus won't extract any water from the meat.

                    So if it were me, I'd add herbs and spices when vacpacking - but only add salt or sugar after removing from the sous-vide and before searing.

                    If you want to test a commercial spice mix - simply get a small piece of meat, dry it on kitchen paper and sprinkle a small amount of the spice mix on the surface and leave it for an hour or so.
                    If the surface remains dry
                    if not - there's salt or sugar in there somewhere and you don't wnat to use it in vacpacked meat
                    Gotta be careful with aromatics and vac sealing... they can overpower.

                    Originally posted by Ozric View Post
                    ^^^ x2

                    with one additional suggestion...

                    Place the desired herbs/spices in a sachet of food grade plastic wrap. Lay out the herbs and spices on a small piece of plastic wrap, roll the wrap around them, cut off the ends of the wrap and lay that over the meat before vac sealing. The aromatics and spices will infuse the meat during cooking, but you will avoid unbalanced flavors. For example, if you put a sprig of fresh rosemary directly on a piece of meat and then vac seal, the meat that was in direct contact with the sprig will have much more rosemary flavor than the meat further away after cooking.
                    Good idear there Oz...


                    Drinks well with others



                    ~ P4 ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HawgHeaven View Post
                      Good idear there Oz...
                      Wish I could take credit for it, but I got that one from Thomas Keller's (French Laundry, Napa) book "Under Pressure: Cooking Sous Vide."

                      I need to do a full review of that book for this site. It's excellent. I was lucky to get a new (returned) copy for $37. They're up to $50 for new ones now. The book is HEAVY; it's an art book. Initial list price was $75. There are a bunch of negative reviews on it re its focus, i.e., other restaurant chefs. It takes a bit of thinking to apply it to home use. But not much. And there's such a wealth of truly useful info for anyone wanting to really get into sous vide at home, that I consider it essential. Anyway, more on that later in its own thread.
                      Yoder YS640, Weber Performer Platinum, Weber OTG, Weber Q220, Traeger BBQ125 Executive
                      ThunderDome Vortex, Smokenator 1000, GrillGrates, A-Maze-N Tube Smoker (6" & 12")
                      Weed Dragon Torch with Squeeze Valve (VT2-23SVC), Looftlighter, BernzOmatic High Intensity Torch Head (TS8000)
                      Tappecue, Maverick ET-732 (x2), Maverick PT-100

                      SousVide Supreme, VacMaster VP112 (chamber), VacMaster Pro305 (suction)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I should qualify my earlier post to say seasonings not RUB. I've been using Mojo , worshy mix, Hoisin and teriyaki (homemade) with stuff bagged and frozen with good results. But not salt, sugar...rub mix - ya put thats on just before smokin/grillin.
                        Last edited by Mark R; 03-13-2014, 03:32 PM.
                        Mark
                        sigpic


                        "Likes smokey old pool rooms, clear mountain mornins. Little warm puppies, children and girls of the night"?
                        Smoked-Meat Certified Sausage Head!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ozric View Post
                          ^^^ x2

                          with one additional suggestion...

                          Place the desired herbs/spices in a sachet of food grade plastic wrap. Lay out the herbs and spices on a small piece of plastic wrap, roll the wrap around them, cut off the ends of the wrap and lay that over the meat before vac sealing. The aromatics and spices will infuse the meat during cooking, but you will avoid unbalanced flavors. For example, if you put a sprig of fresh rosemary directly on a piece of meat and then vac seal, the meat that was in direct contact with the sprig will have much more rosemary flavor than the meat further away after cooking.
                          now that's clever - like a bouquet garnet
                          Have you tried it ?
                          Made In England - Fine Tuned By The USA
                          Just call me 'One Grind'



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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by curious aardvark View Post
                            now that's clever - like a bouquet garnet
                            Have you tried it ?
                            Not yet. But I will by the end of this weekend. Pix will be posted!

                            I just got Keller's book a couple of days ago and have been busy digesting it.
                            Yoder YS640, Weber Performer Platinum, Weber OTG, Weber Q220, Traeger BBQ125 Executive
                            ThunderDome Vortex, Smokenator 1000, GrillGrates, A-Maze-N Tube Smoker (6" & 12")
                            Weed Dragon Torch with Squeeze Valve (VT2-23SVC), Looftlighter, BernzOmatic High Intensity Torch Head (TS8000)
                            Tappecue, Maverick ET-732 (x2), Maverick PT-100

                            SousVide Supreme, VacMaster VP112 (chamber), VacMaster Pro305 (suction)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ozric View Post
                              Not yet. But I will by the end of this weekend. Pix will be posted!

                              I just got Keller's book a couple of days ago and have been busy digesting it.
                              It's a lot to "digest", I have been "digesting" "Modernest Cuisine", home version. Just a lot O to think about, good things!
                              Mark
                              sigpic


                              "Likes smokey old pool rooms, clear mountain mornins. Little warm puppies, children and girls of the night"?
                              Smoked-Meat Certified Sausage Head!

                              Comment

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