some questions for new member

[schmalts]

Hi, came across this site recently. Good stuff here!
Been making snack sticks and fresh sausage for years but new to Summer sausage (venison). This years summer attempt was the best so far but not quite there. A few questions. High temp cheese..... I have tried some cheddar cheese curds and had good results with them not melting during smoking. So, what is so much different between curds VS high temp sold as a sausage cheese?
Second, pork butt and shoulder with good fat is hard to come by these days. This weekend I tried something new. I was at walmart and came across a 3 pound vaccume sealed bags of Bacon ends and pieces. Hmmm.... Very high fat content, good smoke flavor.... Well it worked great! and was about a buck a pound. Anyone ever try it? I par froze it and course ground it.
Third, My sausage does not have that sticky consistancy of a good commercial sausage. What am I missing? ( I do not use SOY protien Concentrate) will that help?
My late uncle used to work and was part of the Klements family, and he sampled some summer sausage I had made by a small shop years before I did my own (really good stuff) and he said the sticky texture was from a culture. I wish I knew what he meant now. Anyone know what he meant?

[Kyote]

[QUOTE=schmalts;74688]Hi, came across this site recently. Good stuff here!
Been making snack sticks and fresh sausage for years but new to Summer sausage (venison). This years summer attempt was the best so far but not quite there. A few questions. High temp cheese..... I have tried some cheddar cheese curds and had good results with them not melting during smoking. So, what is so much different between curds VS high temp sold as a sausage cheese?
Second, pork butt and shoulder with good fat is hard to come by these days. This weekend I tried something new. I was at walmart and came across a 3 pound vaccume sealed bags of Bacon ends and pieces. Hmmm.... Very high fat content, good smoke flavor.... Well it worked great! and was about a buck a pound. Anyone ever try it? I par froze it and course ground it.
Third, My sausage does not have that sticky consistancy of a good commercial sausage. What am I missing? ( I do not use SOY protien Concentrate) will that help?
My late uncle used to work and was part of the Klements family, and he sampled some summer sausage I had made by a small shop years before I did my own (really good stuff) and he said the sticky texture was from a culture. I wish I knew what he meant now. Anyone know what he meant?[/QUOTE]

[Richtee]

Near as I can tell, the high temp cheese is a higher curd content product. Less fat... is kinda "rubbery" eaten out of the package. The fat in the sausage does seem to combine with it, as once smoked- it's nowhere near as 'tough"

Cultures refer to a microbe/bacteria additive used during grinding/stuffing that adds the typical "tart" flavors in a summer sausage. Not sure on the "sticky"? DDan?

[travcoman45]

Cultures such as Bactoferm (several varieties) are used in dry cure sauasage an not in summer sausage. Ya could try some fat replacer to add a more creamy type texture with out addin additional fat. I normally use 80/20 in mine an it's a bit dryer then many commercials, you could gota 30% fat ta make it creamier, but I'd add in fat replacer before that. That be a personal choice though.

Fermento will give ya some tang in a summer sausage.

[Richtee]

Cultures such as Bactoferm (several varieties) are used in dry cure sauasage an not in summer sausage. Ya could try some fat replacer to add a more creamy type texture with out addin additional fat. I normally use 80/20 in mine an it's a bit dryer then many commercials, you could gota 30% fat ta make it creamier, but I'd add in fat replacer before that. That be a personal choice though.

They use them in summers too, Tip. Fermento is called out by Kutas. It depends on the style yer doing as to the type of culture tho.

The fat replacer might be what you are looking for tho- as it's used alot in commercial mixes.

[ALX]

to the forum...

[Gunslinger]

I prefer encapsulated citric acid for the tang. It's easy, cheap and gooooooood.
I use a soy based binder in my summers, and have no problems.
Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure that "high temp cheese" is not real cheese. I used Velveeta cheese shreds in some jalapeño brats I did last weekend and they friggin' rock man. Gotta cook them a bit slower, but they taste better slow roasted anyway. I got something real special in store for them.

[DangerDan]

I prefer encapsulated citric acid for the tang. It's easy, cheap and gooooooood.
I use a soy based binder in my summers, and have no problems.

Yep, that'd be the route there.

BP offers something a little better than the soy protien now also. A special binder.

[black_dog]

I had the same thoughts on using cheap bacon for my fat. Store I get my meat from makes there own sausage and use all the fat they trim. I have a lot of trouble getting enough fat for my sausage. Welcome to the site, great bunch of people.

[mulepackin]

I've used bacon ends and pieces for years in my sausage products when I can't find reliable fat and trim sources. They do indeed work very well. Not exactly sure what you are referring to as far as the "sticky" consistency of sausage. Soy protein or powdered non fat dried milk or other binder will certainly help bring everything together and help prevent a crumbly sausage, as well as making it retain its juices. Even though many folks have said not to, I use regular powdered milk, give it a whirl in the food processor and use just like the recipe calls for. It works just fine.

[curious aardvark]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
I prefer encapsulated citric acid for the tang. It's easy, cheap and gooooooood.
I use a soy based binder in my summers, and have no problems.
Yep, that'd be the route there.

BP offers something a little better than the soy protien now also. A special binder.

Come on people I thought I was finally getting through to some of you lol
Just use afew oats :-)
It's cheap, it works, it's natural.
The stickiness is usually down to emulsification (fine grind and high speed mixing).
I find that adding alcohol to a medium ground sausage and leaving 24 hours has a similiar effect. Whiskey will also give you a slightly sweet/sour tang.
Also I would generally go for less fat not more. A higher meat to fat ratio will give you a better flavoured and firmer sausage that hasn;'t got that horrible greasy mouthfeel of a lot of commercial sausage.
Adding bacon is good - but try and add more bacon than bacon fat.

So you can either go my route: less fat, booze and getting your oats
Or add a lot of crap and chemicals, your choice :-)

[blues_n_cues]

oats work great for a binder or you can even use bread crumbs(croutons).

[schmalts]

Come on people I thought I was finally getting through to some of you lol
Just use afew oats :-)
It's cheap, it works, it's natural.
The stickiness is usually down to emulsification (fine grind and high speed mixing).
I find that adding alcohol to a medium ground sausage and leaving 24 hours has a similiar effect. Whiskey will also give you a slightly sweet/sour tang.
Also I would generally go for less fat not more. A higher meat to fat ratio will give you a better flavoured and firmer sausage that hasn;'t got that horrible greasy mouthfeel of a lot of commercial sausage.
Adding bacon is good - but try and add more bacon than bacon fat.

So you can either go my route: less fat, booze and getting your oats
Or add a lot of crap and chemicals, your choice :-)

Oats? O.K., tell me more. How much for a 10 pound batch of summer. What kind of oats? like just outmeal out of the box or something different? Do you use whole oats of blend them up into dust?

[Richtee]

Remember- he's from England ;{)

[schmalts]

[QUOTE=Kyote;74689]

Hi, came across this site recently. Good stuff here!
Been making snack sticks and fresh sausage for years but new to Summer sausage (venison). This years summer attempt was the best so far but not quite there. A few questions. High temp cheese..... I have tried some cheddar cheese curds and had good results with them not melting during smoking. So, what is so much different between curds VS high temp sold as a sausage cheese?
Second, pork butt and shoulder with good fat is hard to come by these days. This weekend I tried something new. I was at walmart and came across a 3 pound vaccume sealed bags of Bacon ends and pieces. Hmmm.... Very high fat content, good smoke flavor.... Well it worked great! and was about a buck a pound. Anyone ever try it? I par froze it and course ground it.
Third, My sausage does not have that sticky consistancy of a good commercial sausage. What am I missing? ( I do not use SOY protien Concentrate) will that help?
My late uncle used to work and was part of the Klements family, and he sampled some summer sausage I had made by a small shop years before I did my own (really good stuff) and he said the sticky texture was from a culture. I wish I knew what he meant now. Anyone know what he meant?[/QUOTE]

thanks for the informative response....easy to see after my first post who the elitists are here and who are helpfull.. I know what a freaking culture is, I do not know how, what or where to get it.