OK I have a question

[Richtee]

So you have let's say...a brisket or a butt. Smoked. Non-violated in any way that's not safe- what effect does this have on the entire hunk... relative to the "4 hour rule"?

[Richtee]

I'm assuming any arguement must be about the surface...is really my question?

[blues_n_cues]

specify or call the bnc skit line.. what do you mean rich

[Richtee]

Does smoking a whole hunk allow more of a time with surface temps of the meat under 140 for serving?

[blues_n_cues]

as long as the core temp reaches a minimum of 140 the outer will have reached a higher temp.

(unless the mass is spinning @ a rotation matching that of the earth & the mass is equal to said planet) whoa- i went all discovery channel & chit.

[PigCicles]

See how you are - vague. It's alreay cooked since you say smoked. Non violated meaning not cut or punctured so no intro of bacteria to the internal. How long has it been out in the open, what environment (around uncooked food)

I've eaten beef that's been out all day that was cooked and no problems. Also you have in a sense cured the meat with the smoking so I'm guessing that it is probably okay. I know that the more skimish will say pitch it - I will run the low road and say it's probably okay - especially if you reheat it to at least a temp of 160º (but how do you know if it isn't violated)

So many things to think about buster.

[bbally]

Does smoking a whole hunk allow more of a time with surface temps of the meat under 140 for serving?

No

Four hours between 40 and 140 F is it. Then it is cool out or heat up.

You can write an haccp exemption if you cured with Nitrate, but not with Nitrite. That would give you 6 hours.

The problem becomes the air.

[blues_n_cues]

Does smoking a whole hunk allow more of a time with surface temps of the meat under 140 for serving?

what is the hunk? if beef the internal should @ least be to 135(imo)then wrapped & rested or rested @ least.

why are you cooking a "hunk"-my def is @ least 5lb... to an out temp of 140.

[Richtee]

No

Four hours between 40 and 140 F is it. Then it is cool out or heat up.

You can write an haccp exemption if you cured with Nitrate, but not with Nitrite. That would give you 6 hours.

The problem becomes the air.

Ahhh... yes, I was assuming some curing..EG smoke ring and it's anti qualities.

Winner winner, chicken (170°) dinner!

[Whisky Fish]

K can I be the first to say, , ,what the hell are you talkin about?
What's the four hour rule?
"write an haccp exemption" huh?
Just when I thought I was catchin on here you guys go all Capernicus on me.
And if you start talkin black holes, theory of realativity, vector algebra or quantum physics, I'm goin back to that quilting forum that understood me so well.

[Richtee]

K can I be the first to say, , ,what the hell are you talkin about?
What's the four hour rule?
"write an haccp exemption" huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazard_...Control_Points

Someone trained and verified thru this program, as BBally is- can "approve" a process for commercial use upon satisfactory demonstration of "safeness" due to other factors than the usual food safty general rules.

My question- altho slightly veiled- was what does the smoke ring/anti-bacterials etc. buy you on an uncut piece of meat... as far as time "in the danger zone".

Just when I thought I was catchin on here you guys go all Capernicus on me.
And if you start talkin black holes, theory of realativity, vector algebra or quantum physics, I'm goin back to that quilting forum that understood me so well.

We promise to limit that stuff to the bare minimum, WF... really!

On edit: I missed a question. The "Four Hour Rule" in layman's terms...so I understand them... is any warmed food must not be allowed to be between 40 and 140°F for longer than four hours. This temp range is where bacteria can grow at rather amazing rates. Sooo..keep cool foods cool, and hot foods hot, and be aware of the "holding times". It also applies to smoking/cooking in that you want an I.T. on the meat to hit 140 within 4 hours. IF that meat has not been punctured/cut into or otherwise had it's interior exposed to air or possibly contaminated tools... there is some leeway in the rule.

[bbally]

Sorry wiskeyfish,

Hazardous Analysis Critical Control Points

HACCP

When you are doing something with little printed regulation you must do an HACCP program. This results in a safe proceedure that insures the scary parts are identified and checked.

The smoke ring does not by you anything. The smoke ring is like an herb, seasoning only. (Although it keeps flies away for centuries) You can only get additional time from something that actively kills infection. Sodium nitrate, sugar in specific concentrations and salt and lack of moisture in specific concentrations.

We do this based on experience and knowledge of what can go wrong and how to control what can go wrong.

[Whisky Fish]

We promise to limit that stuff to the bare minimum, WF... really!

Rich and bbally, please don't, I was just kidding(quilting forum? ). I want to know this stuff backwards and forewards. I'm obsessive compulsive.
You guys are great. When you start talkin in Farsi I gotta butt in and say huh? If we were havin a beer together you would have heard my tone of voice. The computer sucks when it comes to context and implacation. Oh and I really do know vector algebra and quantum physics.
Upon rereading the post I sould have been able to figure out everything but the HACCP thing. Bud light and Jose' on Christmas eve. oh well
Cheers brothers and Merry Christmas.

[DDave]

We promise to limit that stuff to the bare minimum, WF... really!

Rich and bbally, please don't,

Amen to that. Very valuable information for sure!!

Dave

[Texas-Hunter]

Huh????? My theory is Cook it, and Eat!!! Don't let it sit around... Some other varmints will get it..