There are as many ways to make sourdough as there are to smoke ribs or butts. This is just my way, for right now. It is always changing as I learn more from others.

Meet Carl

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/firmstarter.jpg

This is my 'firm' starter. If you want to read about Carl's origins google "carl griffith sourdough". Carl is hydrated to about 66% right now. He lives in the refridgerator until I want to bake, then I feed him and we make sourdough/wild yeast bread.

I measure my bread formulas/recipes in grams, but you can convert them to ounces. It is the ratio that is important.

Today I made bread with this 72% hydration formula
130 gr starter (Carl)
305gr H2O
1 1/2 tsp toasted seseame oil
1/4 cup toasted seseame seeds
400gr bread flour
50gr whole wheat flour
10gr salt

I started by weighing Carl last night.

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd2.jpg

He weighs 88 gr and I need 130gr. Carl has been in the fridge for a few days so I need to feed him so he has enough strength to raise my dough. From my understanding of sourdough you always want to feed at least twice the amount of starter with flour. The amount of water is unimportant to the starter, it only needs to hydrate the dough. Water only matters to the baker and recipe. The starter doesn't eat water.
So, unless I want extra starter (today I don't want too much) I have to get rid of some of the old starter and feed what is left.

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd3.jpg

This is what I fed, with the container I start with 30gr, not much huh?
I use a 1-2-3 feeding method. One parts starter, two parts H2O, three parts flour. I like to give my starter lots to eat! I have read, and believe that the more you feed it, meaning ratio of flour, not water, the more active the starter is and the more flavorful it is.

Here I have the 30gr of starter with 60gr of H2O

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd4.jpg

Now, 90gr of flour

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd5.jpg

I like to use a chopstick to mix it with. It minimizes the mess. I do all the mixing in the pint container. The chopstick cleans the sides and does a really efficient job.

This is Carl after a good nights work.

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd7.jpg
http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd8.jpg

It's kind of like muffin mix

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd9.jpg

When I make my dough I mix everything in one bowl and just tare out the scales after each addition.
Here is 130gr of Carl with the seeds, oil, and H2O.
I saved the extra fed starter/Carl and put it in the fridge for the next bake/build.

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd10.jpg
add the flour.
http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd11.jpg

The only tool I use to mix is a bowl scraper, I don't take the dough out of the bowl and I don't add any more flour and my hands don't touch the dough or get dirty. I do use my hands later, after the dough is developed. But my hands stay clean and so does the counter. The only thing that I have to wash is the bowl and my bowl scraper.

I fold the dough onto itself, in the bowl about 20 turns, until it is just hydrated and leave it for 20 minutes, then I fold it onto itself again two more time, about 20 times each time. Again, I do that two more times at 20 minute intervals. I added the salt after the second 'bowl fold'. I guess the salt interfers with the yeast development if you add it too early:noidea: I just do it out of habit at this point.

Here is fold 2 and 3

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd12.jpg

You can see the dough coming togeather and the gluten starting to form.

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd13.jpg


Here is is turned out onto the counter after 1 hour of folding the dough onto itself in the bowl.
http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd15.jpg

Next I do a series of two or three "stretch and folds" instead of the traditional 'kneading', on the counter...don't know if anyone is still awake to want to see that...if so I can post. I won't assume so.
Thanks for looking at how I do my sourdough mixing.
Cheers.

Hey MO, Nice post. Your right about the number of ways of keeping starters. On a bread baking forum I belong to there is a non SD method which sounds real interesting to me. It's a water roux formula which I am looking forward to trying. As for me anymore, I will get a starter going and keep it up for a couple months and let it die ( BAD) so mostley I make sponge type breads now which really is just a young starter as you know. I did post on here awhile back on how to convert any bread recipe into a sponge method. I am gonna give you poi-nts for the well defined post.

Awesome post MO! Gimme Mo!
I have some precioust to me starter I am just waiting to start! I love the post, sourdough has been a bit intimidating for me. You have broken it down wonderfully! Thank you for the amazing post!

Thanks for the tutorial MO....I appreciate these threads....poi-nts

Appreciate that....still work in-progress with my starter. It works just wanna get better. Thanks!

Great show MO. My wife makes our sourdough, took her years to get it all figured out. I go crazy for a couple of days waiting for it to be turned into cinnamon rolls. She never makes enough. They always dissappear between me, the boys and the grandkids before I get tired of them. But sourdough is a real delicacy that is cheap to make, ya just need patience and a fine tuned skill. A skill which looks to me you got going on. You gotta be a hero in your house when ya make this stuff. I don't know anybody that doesn't like it.:thumb:

I like that bowl folding method. Great post and poi-nts from me.:hail:

Now do we get to see that baked loaf?

Great post Mo, looks as if you're doing great with it, keep us posted on your skills.

Now do we get to see that baked loaf?

Thought you'd never ask:cool:

I wanted to show one more thing I've learned. Most books tell you to put a pan in the bottom of the oven and either put ice cubes, or water in the pan to make steam. That or spray the sides of the oven to make steam. Both these methods are very hard on the oven and can short things out or break glass. Someone on a breadmaking forum I am on figured out that if you cover your loaf with an oven proof bowl during baking it provides enough steam through evaporation to give the needed effect.

Here is my fully risen loaf, slashed and ready to go in the oven

http://momckenna.com/smoked-meat/baked1.jpg

Covered with SS bowl, in the oven for 20 minutes

http://momckenna.com/smoked-meat/baked2.jpg

after 20 minutes half baked

http://momckenna.com/smoked-meat/baked3.jpg

20 more minutes uncovered to brown and for crunchy crust

http://momckenna.com/smoked-meat/baked4.jpg

There you go...bread.
Thanks for looking. I love making bread and it was fun to share a bake!

Just amazing Mo. poi-nts to ya...:drooling:

Madame Moselle, what a wonderful tutorial you shared with us. Amazing work :thumb: Your bread is quite beautiful. And a kick ass tip, with the oven proof bowl ! Fantastic thread Mo! Thanks for sharing.

That's more work than I'm willing to put in for a loaf of bread, but it sure looks good!:thumb:

http://www.momckenna.com/smoked-meat/sd10.jpg[/IMG]
add the flour.


Mo - I like the sounds of toasted seseame - great idea and good looking round of bread.
Tracey

Just amazing! Thanks for sharing!!

That's just awesome. Great thread, great tutorial, just awesome!! :thumb: poi-nts :thumb:

Got some dipping sauce ready for that bread.........Excellent work Mo
You deserve poi-nts for that work and great tutorials w/pics

This is a great post & tutorial. Thank You. Today I started some stiff starter ... we'll see how this works out. Hate having to dump starter down the drain when I feed the liquid starter

I know what you mean about dumping all that extra starter out.. I still have to dump a little out now and then, but it's maybe 1/4 of a cup.
Keep us posted how it works for you.

I know what you mean about dumping all that extra starter out.. I still have to dump a little out now and then, but it's maybe 1/4 of a cup.
Keep us posted how it works for you.

Went here to convert liquid to stiff starter

http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/12/07/stiff-starter/

I like that site. Have you seen this http://www.sourdoughhome.com/downloads.html
He has some Exel conversions that work really well. He has some good information too. Does a really good job explaining what is going on with the bacteria and yeast in sourdough starters.

I like that site. Have you seen this http://www.sourdoughhome.com/downloads.html
He has some Exel conversions that work really well. He has some good information too. Does a really good job explaining what is going on with the bacteria and yeast in sourdough starters.

Thank you ... I will definitly visit that site. :thumb:

Fantastic tutorial Mo! filled in a bunch of blanks for me. And the final pic. wow!

good golly that looks good... :thumb:

Totally missed this last year! Great thread, Mo! :thumb: Bread looks amazing!! :drooling:

Thanks Becky.
This is a blast fromt he past huh?
Carl's still going strong!

dam, its a work of art... i can only imagine it still warm with some butter and honey on it!!! thks for sharing your technique. keep that bread coming!!!poi-nts

guess hafta catch ya on reload, points police yano...

Thanks Becky.
This is a blast fromt he past huh?
Carl's still going strong!

Mr. Whisky Fish brought it to my attention that it should be a sticky. And I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agreed, Mo. Beautiful post! :thumb:

You people might make a baker of me yet... :noidea:

You people might make a baker of me yet... :noidea:

Thanks Rich.
I just posted a new thread just for you:nana2:

Not sure how your starter does what it does ... bubbles and all. Mine just sits in a ball. The ball does get bigger, so something is happening in there. :noidea: Guess I'll have to keep searching and find my problem. :faint:

ok, so I got some of the dehydrated Carl's a while ago and I tried getting it to start last night. Followed the directions to a T, but it just doesn't seem to be doing anything. I guess I could have gotten a bad batch, we'll see what it looks like when I get home tonight I guess.

Anyway, here's how it went down....

I took 1/2 tsp of the dehydrated starter and soaked it in about 1 Tbsp of luke warm water for 5 minutes or so. Then added 1 Tbsp of flour (bread flour to be exact), and about 2 more tsp of warm water to get it to the "thin pancake batter" consistency it said. I loosely put the lid on the glass jar it was in and set it on the counter.

About 2 hours later, when it was time for me to go to bed, I took a look, not much happened. It seemed like the water had separated from the flour, which had all sunk to the bottom, with a layer of clear water on top. I gave it a good shake and it mixed up really well, so I figured it just needed more time, so I put it on top of the fridge and went to bed.

This morning I took a look again. Still not much happening. Looked pretty much the same as last night, only maybe (maybe!) a little more volume. A few quick shakes stirred it up like last night. So I figured I'd just keep going... I transferred it to a bigger glass gar (Quart size) and added 1/4 cup warm water and 1/4 cup flour. Stirred it all up good, covered with plastic wrap and put it back on top of the fridge.

So that's where I'm at now, we'll see what it looks like when I get home. Hopefully it's just a slow start, not dead. Any ideas where I might have gone wrong (if I did)?

Yanno..I sent Mo an email last week...she's been MIA since May.

Try a tablespoon of sugar?

I don't know how much they sent you, but 1/2 teaspoon doesn't sound like much. If you have more, I'd just dump it all in, add a little more warm water and enough flour to make it more like a medium thick pancake batter. If all that doesn't work, just PM me your address and I'll send you some of mine.

Ok, I got home and it was more of the same. A ball of dense flour dough on the bottom and a layer of golden brown (this morning it was clear) liquid on top.

So I added about a tbsp of raw sugar, some dehydrated potato flakes, enough flour to thickened it up to a pancake batter consistency. Maybe a little thicker. I also added the rest of the starter flakes. It's been sitting in the oven with the light on for about an hour, hoping the slightly warmer temp kicks things off. We'll see.

sent from my super cool internet enabled pocket watch.

Well that seems to have done something. Last night before I went to bed I added some more flour and water and stirred it up real good. This morning it had some nice bubbles going, though not too many. It didn't seem to have changed volume any yet, but at least it's doing something.

Well that seems to have done something. Last night before I went to bed I added some more flour and water and stirred it up real good. This morning it had some nice bubbles going, though not too many. It didn't seem to have changed volume any yet, but at least it's doing something.

Your starter may not change in volume to a great extent. It's when you make the sponge from the starter and make a dough that it really starts to expand. Sounds like you are off to a good start now.:thumb:

Your starter may not change in volume to a great extent. It's when you make the sponge from the starter and make a dough that it really starts to expand. Sounds like you are off to a good start now.:thumb:

Hmmm, yeah I guess I was thinking it'd be like dough and expand, but that makes sense, since the expansion comes from the gasses released and in this semi-liquid state the bubbles just float up and pop. Cool.

Can't wait to make some bread with it.

Yeasts LOVE sugar :{)

Well it seems to be doing it's thing now. When I got home last night it was nice and bubbly and had almost doubled in size. I left it alone overnight and this morning it was back down to it's usual size. I fed it some more flour and water and tonight I'm going to split some off to make bread and the rest goes in the fridge for a short nap. :-) Thanks for the help getting it going guys!

:thumb: ... :thumb:

Well it seems to be doing it's thing now. When I got home last night it was nice and bubbly and had almost doubled in size. I left it alone overnight and this morning it was back down to it's usual size. I fed it some more flour and water and tonight I'm going to split some off to make bread and the rest goes in the fridge for a short nap. :-) Thanks for the help getting it going guys!

Mike, make sure you make an extra cup of your sponge. Then in the morning, just put that cup back in with your starter. You're on the road to having a lifetime supply of starter and the longer you have it, the better it gets.

I've been working on a starter for the last 3 days and it just started bubbling today!
Been reading about sourdough and thought i'd give it a try........so far, so good.

I've been working on a starter for the last 3 days and it just started bubbling today!
Been reading about sourdough and thought i'd give it a try........so far, so good.

Good on ya! Great stuff! Reminds me...I need to wake that gig up & feed & burp it!