I recently purchased 3 food grade drum to start my first UDS build and I was wondering about the first burn. The drums are in fantastic shape but the inside has a brown coating or paint. I'm told that the drums were for food preservatives. Do I need to burn them out or just season and SMOKE? I will post a pic of the inside soon.
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You should get them down to bare metal on the inside -- which, if they have the red epoxy phenolic liner in them, will be next to impossible without copious amounts of wirewheeling or sand blasting.
If you manage to build a fire big enough to get rid of the liner, which doesn't usually happen, be sure to stay upwind of it. Those fumes are nasty.
There are differing opinions on whether or not they are safe to use with remnants of the liner left and at what temps the liner will fume. Some say it's okay -- some don't. Most that say it's okay offer only anecdotal evidence such as "I've been using it that way for (insert time frame here) and I'm still kickin' it".
Perhaps someone with a chemistry background (CA ) could chime in? Here's a link to a company that makes the liners.
http://www.deltacoating.com/linings_liners.htm
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Here we go......
I quit removing the liners long ago. If you can't remove it with a 3000* fire, you really think low n slow cooking is gonna hurt it. Have many happy customers that haven't keeled over or grew a third eye.
I scuff it down clean and wipe a nice layer of crisco in it and give it a good 6-8 hr seasoning with wood of choice. Once it's seasoned the liner is sealed.
You may start the flogging now but i'm stickin to my guns.
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Originally posted by Bbq Bubba View PostHere we go......
I quit removing the liners long ago. If you can't remove it with a 3000* fire, you really think low n slow cooking is gonna hurt it. Have many happy customers that haven't keeled over or grew a third eye.
I scuff it down clean and wipe a nice layer of crisco in it and give it a good 6-8 hr seasoning with wood of choice. Once it's seasoned the liner is sealed.
You may start the flogging now but i'm stickin to my guns.Chris
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Guess...I ain't never had a liner in one...done three so far. Got after em with the weed burner....scuff & season. Gotta agree with Bubba!Sunset Eagle Aviation
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sunse...888015?fref=ts <... We sure could use some likes!
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Originally posted by Bbq Bubba View PostYou may start the flogging now but i'm stickin to my guns.
Actually there is a welding shop down the road from me that sells drum cookers -- not the UDS type but similar -- no airflow control really -- 12 pounds of Kingsford set ablaze on a disc plate -- cooking at much higher temps than we smoke at -- and they use the same reasoning -- "Have many happy customers that haven't keeled over or grew a third eye." In fact, I'm sure I've eaten several meals out of lined drum cookers since this guy is a good friend of my father-in-law.
I still would be interested to know at what temperature it fumes and what the contents of the fumes are. Some posts suggest that it can be some pretty nasty shit depending on what the liner is.
DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS
Caution must be exercised in predicting the by-products of thermal decomposition. The products generated, and their concentrations, depend on whether pyrolysis or combustion or a combination of the two occurs, and at what temperature, and under what atmospheric conditions, either occurred. The by-products expected in incomplete pyrolysis or combustion of epoxy resins are mainly phenolics, carbon monoxide, and water. The D.E.R. 500 resin series also generates brominated compounds, such as hydrogen bromide. Thus, the thermal decomposition products of epoxy resins should be treated as potentially hazardous substances, and appropriate precautions should be taken, including the wearing of full protective clothing.
Originally posted by nomorecoop View PostYou have a point. If the damn thing won't burn off at high temps, then running 250* wouldn't hurt.
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I guess if I was building one with a liner, I would attempt a burn off with some pallets. After the burn, I'd get what I could of the liner off, but not break my back doing it.
Whatever was left after the high heat burn wouldn't matter.
I'm not sure I'd try this, but it sounds feasable.Chris
UDS - Buckeye 1
Charcoal Grill - Panther 1
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2 Dutch Ovens
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Maverick ET-7 Thermometer
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I'm doing some research, more later ...
Initial findings suggest tht the coatings are used because they are highly resistance to acids and alkalis up to a temp of 250f.
What happens to them after that, is proving a little tricky to find out - going to contact a manufacturer and see if they have any info.
Generic Type: A two package, amine cured, cold set epoxy phenolic. Recommended Usage: HERESITE CSE-6100 Series epoxy phenolic coatings are specifically formulated for immersion or industrial maintenance application. Heresite CSE-6100 can be applied to concrete and metallic substrates. It provides outstanding chemical resistance to a wide range of acids, alkalies, salts, petroleum products and other aqueous solutions. Heresite CSE-6100 Series epoxy coatings are excellent for hot water service and can withstand temperatures up to 250°F (121°C) in deionized water. Chemical Resistance Guide: Exposure Immersion Splash & Spillage Acids Good Excellent Alkalies Good Excellent Solvents Fair Good Inorganic Salts Excellent Excellent Water Excellent Excellent
not that long later...
What a nice bloke, his company don't make the lining material but gave me some good info.
There exist several formulations for drum linings, with perhaps the one in question being an epoxy phenolic copolymer. Most of these types of coatings are based on a Bisphenol A epoxy linked to a phenolic group and meet the requirements for direct food contact. This Bisphenol A is tightly crosslinked to which the coating polymer is different than that found in the baby bottle scare which made recent news. With that stated maximum temperatures will range from 250-400+ºF.
This is all the information I can give at this time. The Valspar Corporation is a major player in the epoxy type drum coating industry and would be perhaps a better source for technical information.
Two final thoughts: 1) It may not be the coating to be concerned about but what was in the drum prior to cleaning and is it in fact 100% cleaned out or is there residual material left in the container. And 2) most of these linings are thin film <0.005 inch thick that abrasive blasting to remove may be a valid option.
Last edited by curious aardvark; 08-06-2010, 12:46 PM.Made In England - Fine Tuned By The USAJust call me 'One Grind'
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Originally posted by nomorecoop View PostWhatever was left after the high heat burn wouldn't matter.
Although, I just went and took another look at the drum I burned out a year and a half ago, wire wheeled the hell out of and gave up on because it seemed like there was too much of the lining left. Conventional wisdom at the time said don't use it unless it's down to bare metal.
There seems to be a bit of rust in there now which seems to suggest that I got more of the liner off than I thought I did. In that case, a bit of a cleanup, Bubba's coat with Crisco, season and rock on would likely be fine.
With that stated maximum temperatures will range from 250-400+ºF.
I hope so. Since that means I'll have a second UDS here pretty soon.
I'm doing some research, more later ...
DaveCUHS Metal Shop Reverse Flow
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"All welcome, take what ya need, share what ya know. " -- Richtee, 12/2/2010
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CUHS Metal Shop Reverse Flow
UDS 1.0
Afterburner
Weber Performer
Blue Thermapen
Thermoworks Smoke with Gateway
Thermoworks Chef Alarm
Auber Smoker Controller
Proud Smoked-Meat Member #88
-
"All welcome, take what ya need, share what ya know. " -- Richtee, 12/2/2010
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Originally posted by Pandemonium View PostI cant wait to hear more on this because the liners are always in the barrels I find, si i dont buy them for that reason.
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If you can get a drum from an oil company that had grease in it, that would be good. The drum interior is bare metal and lined with a plastic bag of sorts. When the grease is gone, they pull the bag and they're left with a nice clean drum, if the bag didn't rupture, like mine. Still easier to clean than the epoxy lining. But then I have a trick for that too.
Tom
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