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  • Bone Creep, pull back, Dave an answer

    Dave thought this would be better as a new thread.

    Originally posted by DDave View Post
    St. Louis can not have bone creep (pull back) in the
    professional catering world.
    why is pull back so frowned upon in the catering world? Is it a customer preference or a quality preference on the part of the caterer?

    Dave
    I thought this might be a good discussion since Barbeque is so dependant on the Quality of the grade and the handling of the meat we use as the primary ingredient

    First we must look at what bone creep means or could mean to a cut of meat: (all or a couple may apply depending on the meat.

    1.) not a top grade animal

    2.) sick younger animal not up to full maturity culled off

    3.) animal mishandled in the finishing feedlot

    4.) animal not housed properly

    5.) packing house that is trying to make more money by having more trim to make sausage

    6.) packing house with an insane set of butchers

    7.) ungraded or worse No-Roll meat

    For caterers it has specific problems it as to the catering.

    We make money based on bidding a price to feed X amount of people. If there is bone creep yield is going to be lower, I am going to need to feed more racks, profits are out the door.

    So we look to bone creep to tell us if we are getting screwed by the supplier and packing house. I reject a lot of cases at delivery. If the cover is not there it goes back. Do this often enough and the warehouse starts to figure out not to try and pawn the crap cases off on me. That means someone else is getting them. But not me.

    When you get to selling Q in the $28 to $45 dollar per plate range you are dealing with a sophisticated consumer. When they see bone creep they immediately think you charged them for Choice and purchased Select or No-Roll and tried to screw them. Not a good deal and you will lose the client forever. Not something I am going to do.

    The reason it happens is generally from new caterers. Most enter the business having had everyone in their family tell them how good their ribs are and that they should open a place up. Since their only really claim to the food business is "My mom, wife, kids, friends, whatever, say I make great ribs" they start on their merry way by undercutting the price of an event to get it.

    They do it because they see they can get ribs on sale for 99 cents per pounds and the local market. However, damn few know how to go through the ribs and pull out the No-Roll that would have made grade, or find the graded meats that were not ruined by the packing house. So they pick up all the ribs on sale for 99 cents per pounds and put on a catering. If it is family and friends and connections like that, they get away with it for a while.

    Then they run into the event they bought because my price was high and they know they can get ribs for 99 cents a pound. Only I train my clients about the meat I cook and serve. So they show up, they have bone creep, they have no more business.

    Don't get me wrong, they could go do utility catering and make a living and no one would care. When you are in the $8 to $16 dollar per plate range, most won't care about the food quality unless it is down right unedible, they just want their people fed on the cheap and know it is going to be cheap food. But good. I am NOT saying that cheap foods can not be good. I am saying that cheaper foods will never satisfy a $45 per plate barbeque dinner. Can never ever do it. The people paying these prices understand the food and what they are getting. It just does not look like that to those not deep into the food business.

    The short answer would be caterers hate it cause we beat our competitors up with it badly and can not have it happen to us.

    A Caterer (not a utility caterer but a dining caterer) that has bone creep shows:

    They don't understand meat selection

    They don't understand packing houses

    They don't know how to specify the products they cook

    They don't give a crap about quality of what they turn out

    They have a poor understanding of animal carcasses

    They have no pride in presentation

    Which I know sounds harsh, so pick as many emoticons as you need to understand I am not picking on anyone, I just want the information out there for those interested.
    Tour the New Rig Here!

    Sgt. USMC '79-'85

    S-M inmate number 12

    RIP ronP


  • #2
    Originally posted by Richtee
    OK... I thought ya meant pullback during cooking. DOH.
    I think it is the same thing, meat pulling back exposing the bone, or the bone looking like it is creeping slowly out of the meat.
    Tour the New Rig Here!

    Sgt. USMC '79-'85

    S-M inmate number 12

    RIP ronP

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    • #3
      oops... I went to edit and zapped that post... Soo...yer saying any pullback is BAD?
      In God I trust- All others pay cash...
      Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
      Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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      • #4
        I am saying in a professional setting that would be the case. Unless it is a utility caterer.

        It remains even in use at home, that creep indicates a lesser grade or really poor cutting skill at the packing house.
        Tour the New Rig Here!

        Sgt. USMC '79-'85

        S-M inmate number 12

        RIP ronP

        Comment


        • #5
          Why am I looking for pullback as a sign to either foil (rare anymore) or to baste/mop again and in either case get the turn in box ready?
          In God I trust- All others pay cash...
          Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
          Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Richtee View Post
            Why am I looking for pullback as a sign to either foil (rare anymore) or to baste/mop again and in either case get the turn in box ready?
            I guess cause someone showed you that?

            I beleive what you are really looking for when you see pullback or shrink or bone creep is the point when the meat has released its grip on the bone. I do it by looking at the bone itself.
            Tour the New Rig Here!

            Sgt. USMC '79-'85

            S-M inmate number 12

            RIP ronP

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bbally View Post
              I guess cause someone showed you that?

              I beleive what you are really looking for when you see pullback or shrink or bone creep is the point when the meat has released its grip on the bone. I do it by looking at the bone itself.
              Aww crap. And here I thought I knew something. Figgers. OK the bone itself... 'splain that pleeze... or maybe ya did...re-reading...
              In God I trust- All others pay cash...
              Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
              Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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              • #8
                another interesting thread. I wasn't aware there was a grading scale for pork?
                Lang 60 Mobile deluxe




                Captain-N-Smoke BBQ Team(retired)
                ____________________________________________
                Takes allot of work and an open mind to make good sense.
                Praise the Lord and pass the Cannabis.

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                • #9
                  Bob,

                  Thanks for the explanation. I guess it's true that sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

                  Dave
                  CUHS Metal Shop Reverse Flow
                  UDS 1.0
                  Afterburner
                  Weber Performer
                  Blue Thermapen
                  Thermoworks Smoke with Gateway
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                  Proud Smoked-Meat Member #88
                  -
                  "All welcome, take what ya need, share what ya know. " -- Richtee, 12/2/2010

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                  • #10
                    The point of a rib ready for the steam phase (what most call foiling) is when the rib bone is wiggled or moved and the meat stays while the bone wiggles under it.

                    This is the completion of the breakdown of connective tissues that hook the muscle to the bone. Small tendons and ligaments. When this part of the cooking is done the meat has reached a critical stage.

                    That stage is running away water activity. While it has been losing hydration the entire time it has been cooking, this threshold is the start of rapid dehydration. That is the meat is going to release a lot of steam losing its water. This is due to the meat being in resonants with its infrared acceptance and emission. It can no longer accept any more heat energy without giving off energy of equivalent strength. Hence water will start to regularly exceed its boiling point, 198 F here at my altitude, and release the energy in an explosion where the water changes states from liquid to gaseous stage.

                    To prevent dry ribs you have two choices at this point. Add humidity to your cooker, or wrap the ribs up to prevent the water loss, and add a layer of insulation in the form of aluminum foil. Steam that is trapped super heats and further aids in the break down of protien and connective tissues.

                    Because steam wets the crust, there is usually a point where the humidity is reduces and dryer heat is used to crust the outside up a little.

                    I call it mallaird running, many call it defoiling the ribs.

                    The stuff we all do on a barbeque is so damn cool. You guys are chemists and spectroscopists and don't even know it.

                    After training as a chef in my youth I went on to be an electrical engineer and trained as an atomic spectroscopist in case you want to know why the weird guy knows all this crap. I also became a coal fired boiler engineer when I was learning to run coal fired power plants.

                    Please add emoticons in your head as you read this, I am only presenting information. So add smilies and that crap as needed to understand I am not picking on people.
                    Last edited by bbally; 01-17-2010, 09:25 PM. Reason: add in disclaimer on emoticons
                    Tour the New Rig Here!

                    Sgt. USMC '79-'85

                    S-M inmate number 12

                    RIP ronP

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                    • #11
                      Very "Eye Opening" Bob, thanks for filling us in on a lot of things I have never heard before....
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Capt Dan View Post
                        another interesting thread. I wasn't aware there was a grading scale for pork?
                        Pork Grading Document

                        I read this stuff over and over and over to make sure I am getting what I paid for... the link will take you to it Ron
                        Tour the New Rig Here!

                        Sgt. USMC '79-'85

                        S-M inmate number 12

                        RIP ronP

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sommabitch.

                          Do you know Harold McGee? Or is that yer pen name?
                          In God I trust- All others pay cash...
                          Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
                          Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bbally View Post
                            Still reading. (Dr. Spock imitation) facinating!
                            In God I trust- All others pay cash...
                            Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
                            Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Richtee View Post
                              Sommabitch.

                              Do you know Harold McGee? Or is that yer pen name?
                              I was thinking maybe bbally is really Alton Brown.

                              Glad to have you here Bob. And thanks for the great info.

                              Dave
                              CUHS Metal Shop Reverse Flow
                              UDS 1.0
                              Afterburner
                              Weber Performer
                              Blue Thermapen
                              Thermoworks Smoke with Gateway
                              Thermoworks Chef Alarm
                              Auber Smoker Controller
                              Proud Smoked-Meat Member #88
                              -
                              "All welcome, take what ya need, share what ya know. " -- Richtee, 12/2/2010

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