Pork shoulder in the brine/how long?

[williamzanTzinger]

Ok at this point maybe this sounds like a newbie question. Ive brined pork shoulders/buts before.Usually using a 1 cup salt to 1 gallon of water ratio.always 18-24 hours in the brine. Usually winds up a bit too salty I think.
RICHTEE(if your listening) when he gave me his brine recipe(for chicken) was 3/4 cup of salt to 1 gallon of water. The chicken after the 4-5 hours he reccomended was not even close to being too salty. so if I follow these same ratios as i used for the chicken how long do you reccomend for the shoulders? about 8#s each.
Ive read that you can cut back on the salt and brine longer and Ive read also that this was not true, as the science beehind what is acctually happening during brining is not agreed upon by all, maybe the answer to my question is also up in the air. The shoulders will be smoked wedthrough thursday(overnightish) but they are in my possesion right now so I wouldnt mind starting the proccess as soon as possible. What rules of thumb do you briners usually follow? and if you dont brine and find it completely unwarranted, id like to hear about thaat too.i dont always brine but do find it the best way to get the flavor all the way to the bone. I like my shoulders seaoned well and almost never use a rub.

Usually wind up with something like this

[Richtee]

Honestly, if you are after flavor- I would say inject. Brining a hunk of meat that's gonna be plenty juicy on its own is kinda a waste of time. Well, unless you are curing a ham...but that's a bit different process.

As far as time- within limits a weaker brine will allow a longer time, but ultimately it's the ion concentration that determines its effectivness. There is alot of science going on, and I do not understand it completely (Perhaps BBally can elucidate upon my ramblings).You DO need a certain min of concentration, and can over-brine with too high a concentration. Also, a thing called salt equalization comes into play here... allowing the sodium ions to penetrate thruout the meat. In the case of hams...this can be WEEKS. And that's after removing from the brine. So, perhaps with a strong brine you can brine a shorter time, but will STILL need to wait out the equalization period...otherwise- salty outside.

So, there is no clear-cut answer to time Vs. concentration Vs. equalization that I am aware of. Not saying there isn't...probably is as a matter of fact. I am just as gracefully as possible pleading ignorance.

[Savannahsmoker]

I brine for 12 hours, put the rub on for 2 hours, inject and into the smoker low and slow. Mop every couple of hours unless I am asleep. Computer controlled Traeger smoker.

[Bbq Bubba]

Not sure what the heck Rich just said but i agree with him.

Brining a fatty piece of meat such as a butt is about pointless.

Looking for added flavor? Injection is the way to go!

[Uncle-Honky]

We brine our butts and Rib loin roasts. 6 hours will suffice. We have experienced much more moist meat and flavor, with out a doubt. Tip's slaughter House poultry brine, works for too. I recently used this, again, for pulled pork. I sprayed though the cook as well. Cooking for a group(paid venture) great reviews by all.
P.s. Thank you BBQ Bubba and all who helped get that off!

[williamzanTzinger]

Ok see the thimg is, I dont usually brine.I did read somewhere that a piece of brined meat accctually cooks faster than non. That was what made me think to brine this time as I have three shoulders I need to do, thought it might be a short cut?
Also was told a brined piece of meat absorbs smoke more/better which is something id thought I agreed with just judging by trial and error. But if the concensus is no brine, I guess Maybe I wont.

[Whisky Fish]

I don't think that time and brine concentration are very related. I know that sounds wrong but the salt penetrates the cells through osmosis, the depth of that penetration is a funtion of time and the degree of "saltiness" is determined by brine concentration.
The cells are trying to reach equalibrium with the water and they are only going to absorb salt until they reach that same level of concentration.
So if you've found a concentration that you like, I would'nt change it.
The reason people experience a juicier end product is that the salt actually changes the cell structure. It tightens the cells making it harder for them to release moisture. So if the surface cells are less permeable you lose less moisture from the interior of the meat.
I would think that Ryan's six hours, is right on the money.

[Richtee]

I don't think that time and brine concentration are very related. I know that sounds wrong but the salt penetrates the cells through osmosis, the depth of that penetration is a funtion of time and the degree of "saltiness" is determined by brine concentration.
The cells are trying to reach equalibrium ....

Hence the "salt equaliztion" period. You can get alot of salt into the outer layers of the product in a short time with a high brine concentration, and let it equalize out out of the brine over some time period. They may not be directly proportionally related, but I have a feeling they are thru some function of time in the realm of osmosis rates in meat.

[Richtee]

Here's a good article, WZ..

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/70/Brining

[Whisky Fish]

Hence the "salt equaliztion" period. You can get alot of salt into the outer layers of the product in a short time with a high brine concentration, and let it equalize out out of the brine over some time period. They may not be directly proportionally related, but I have a feeling they are thru some function of time in the realm of osmosis rates in meat.

I agree with that Rich, but for practical purposes, I don't think I'd wanna keep an uncured peice of meat around that long. And controlling the salt levels throughout the meat would be a b#$ch

[Richtee]

Right... but remember brining is done chilled... as is the initial curing period until cure is finished. It IS kinda complicated, but can be empirically worked out...IE: Keep notes and experiment!

[Whisky Fish]

According to the link you posted the penetration throughout the meat is much quicker than I would have thought. Interesting read. And some other things are goin on in there as well. Cool stuff.

[williamzanTzinger]

Ok so Im smoking wed, hows this sound
8 hours in 3/4 cup 1 gallon concentration
Tuesday morning remove from brine(wash
apply rub(still tues morning)
smoke wed night thru thursday morning.
Sound like a plan?
thx guys

[williamzanTzinger]

So after reading that article let me ask this(bbally)(and everyone).
Is there any science that would back up my experience that a piece of brined meat would absorb more smoke flavor?Would the denatured protiens and the crazy stuff that is happening with the water content promote better smoke absorbtion?

[Kyote]

http://www.cookshack.com/brining-101#_Toc528293323

this might help also.

as for smoke getting in to the meat more effectivly or efficently because of a brine that has been done to it. not sure. But talking with several folks in my area / state. that do this type of stuff. seems more smoke is entered the product by slow /longer cooking times. and to do so. the temps should be lower. he use's a temp of 210 to do his. and his products taste great. and they are still moist. I do not believe trying to make more smoke go into the cooking chamber would do any good at all. just staying with TBS is the correct way.
I think some folks that do this more then I will have something to say.
And just a note of observance that I have made. seem most BBQ joints today and smoke house's cook at higher temps to get products to the customer fast. also every one is food safe (which is very good) so every body is calling for higher temps on cooking (kill the germs) But some of the OLD TIMERS I have talked with say lower the temps a bit and see what happens. your cook time will be longer, you will get more smoke, and your end result will be better. this stuff makes sence to me.
But also I have not tried it. But have seen it done. and all I can say. it was good.
good luckWZ and let us know how ya did. I guess we all are still learnin to and when ya experiment. at least I would love to know how it went.