pre-boiled meat before smoking....

[DDave]

Guess you missed this one Dave. http://www.smoked-meat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1666 It does answer your question though. Dang, that was easy, give me something a little more challenging.

Good thread, Tom. I did miss that one. Nice breasts.

But my original question was regarding marinating versus injecting.

So how would marinating (SP?) compare to injecting? Other than not being as potentially messy. Would one method be better than the other in certain situations such as using larger spices/leaves etc? Advantages/disadvantages of each?

Dave

[Richtee]

So how would marinating (SP?) compare to injecting? Other than not being as potentially messy. Would one method be better than the other in certain situations such as using larger spices/leaves etc? Advantages/disadvantages of each?

Well...obviously injection must be done with either infusions of spices/herbs or finely divided ones. Disadvantage of the latter: "Needle trax". Can be rather unappealing in meat.

Also, injection can be "spotty" in flavors if time is not allowed for absorbtion of fluid into meat.

Marination is more a surface treatment to the cut. Any longer term submersions run the risk of degrading the meat's texture. (Marinades being an acidic solution by definition, of course) People going 24 hours are really pushing it, depending on the composition of the solution IMO.

Hence, marinades must be made quite "powerful" to impart flavors over a shorter time, where injections should be "mellower" and allowed more time to diffuse thru the cut.

All of this is, of course... mainly my humble opinion.

[Gunslinger]

Good thread, Tom. I did miss that one. Nice breasts.

But my original question was regarding marinating versus injecting.



Dave

Sorry Dave, you quoted my post so I assumed. I feel so stupid now, so I'll just shut up.

[DDave]

All of this is, of course... mainly my humble opinion.

Sounds good to me.

Sorry Dave, you quoted my post so I assumed. I feel so stupid now, so I'll just shut up.

No need to feel stupid, Tom. It was an interesting post that I missed. Thanks for pointing it out.

Dave

[minnbill]

Sorry Dave, you quoted my post so I assumed. I feel so stupid now, so I'll just shut up.

now I;m confusedwasn't one of Toms birds injected and one vacume marinated?

And dang it anyway I'cant belive I missed that thread back in april .way cool Tom

P.S. I love my Revo marinater

[DDave]

now I;m confusedwasn't one of Toms birds injected and one vacume marinated?

Well, now I'm not sure. He said one was injected AND marinated, the other was vacuum marinated but I'm not sure if it was injected or not.

So the first breast has been injected and is marinading in a closed container. I'll flip it over and shake it up every couple of hours.
The second breast is getting the vacuum treatment. Now according to the people that swear by this method, it should only take a few hours. So sitting under vacuum overnight should really make this sucker rich. We'll see.

He didn't say it was so I was assuming it wasn't.

Dave

[Gunslinger]

The damn point was simple. Not only is vacuum marinading better than injecting, but the thread goes a step further and shows that it's more efficient than both injecting AND marinading. Good grief!! If you need to get bay leaves and other large herbs in there, you just grind them to powder.

[DDave]

The damn point was simple. Not only is vacuum marinading better than injecting, but the thread goes a step further and shows that it's more efficient than both injecting AND marinading. Good grief!!

LOL, okay Tom, settle down. I guess I was a little dense on this one. Thanks for spelling it out. And entertaining the thread hijack.

Dave

[Old poi dog]

Hey Firemandan,

Living in the Philippines, you must be familiar with longanissa. Would you just happen to have a longanissa recipe to share? I'm looking for more of the Ilocos version. More garlic and vinegar than sweet.

[Bbqgoddess]

Since some have already mentioned the flavor loss aspect I will leave that as covered.

My problem with preboil is the changes in the density and mobility of the protein strands. They are dead once you take them above 140 F. They have given up the wonderful things we can do to manipulate flavors down along the fibers and hence your lack of depth on the flavor profile of all things pre boiled. To me pre-boil and par boil are the same. They both screw the meat up.

There is one exception to this that I have found over the years, but it is not a smoked dish. If you are cooking Philipine Adobo.... when you allow a boiled meat to rest in the marinade over night and cool out, the vinegar or acidic marinades such as Adobo do a nice job of following the protein string into the meat. Great Adobo is always cooked a day before then let overnight cooling in the marinade and brought up to the final dish the second day. It is magic.

Well once again, Bob has enlightened me... Bob will you marry me? You are my favorite chef for certain! good too see you around!

Now we need a recipe for the Philipine Adobo..... yum...

[Old poi dog]

Well once again, Bob has enlightened me... Bob will you marry me? You are my favorite chef for certain! good too see you around!

Now we need a recipe for the Philipine Adobo..... yum...

Filipino Adobo

2 lbs. pork belly cut into 2 inch pieces or you can also use the trimmings when you trim your pork spare ribs St. Louis Style.

In a bowl add water and apple cider vinegar just so that the vinegar is diluted to your liking.
Add enough kosher salt to the water /apple cider vinegar mixture to add focus.

Place your pork into a pot. Add just enough of your water/apple cider/salt mixture so the water just comes to the top of your pork.

Add 3-4 whole black peppercorns along with 2-3 crushed garlic cloves.

Set your flame to medium high. Place your pot with a cover over heat and wait for it to begin to boil. When it boils for a minute or two drop the flame to medium low.

Allow the water to roll/boil away. Don't hurry it. Keep the lid on. If you take it off the water will boil away before the meat is cooked. When the water boils away the fat will begin to render from the pork. Keep the flame at medium low. After awhile you will notice the garlic begins to get real soft, and the meat begins to brown. Take a sample of the meat and it its at the texture you want, then its done.

The old timers used to just cook by intuition. For me I had to break it down into steps.

[curious aardvark]

(Marinades being an acidic solution by definition, of course)

Umm, only if you use an acidic marinade.
A marinade is just a flavour infused liquid you soak meat in. If you don't use acidic components then it won't be acidic - pretty simple really.

[Whisky Fish]

what is your stand in preboiling meat in the marinade before grilling or smoking the meat?be it poultry,pork or beef...here in the Philippines, we sometimes cook the meat in the mixture of soy sauce, vinegar,salt,pepper, bay leaf, and garlic before we grill them...it taste good when grilled...

by the way...we use dried coconut husk or dried coconut shell when we smoke,it produces good smoke and a smooth flavor on meat...

My take on this question is a bit different. Different cultures cooking methods exist for a reason. We run the risk of missing out on an education when we state, flat out, that boiling meat is a bad thing. From a clasical cooking perspective that would be ridiculous. Boiling, poaching, steaming or foiling, , ,it's all 212 degrees. My question to firemandan is to post a complete recipe of how it's done and maybe some pictures so I can try it out and then make an educated response. After all, throwing a pig in the ground covering it in banana leaves, newspaper and dirt, dosn't sound that good either.

[Richtee]

Umm, only if you use an acidic marinade.
A marinade is just a flavour infused liquid you soak meat in. If you don't use acidic components then it won't be acidic - pretty simple really.

Hmmm... I suppose... except the acid base is what helps the penetration into the meat. Salt will too... but then I'd call it a brine.

[DDave]

My take on this question is a bit different. Different cultures cooking methods exist for a reason. We run the risk of missing out on an education when we state, flat out, that . . .

Excellent point, JT. Seems like often times we judge techniques through the prism of one isolated area of cooking. It's good to keep an open mind.

Dave