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  • #16
    Originally posted by Richtee View Post
    And it was explained to us as such. The "taste" category is more about the smoke, salt level... etc. more a "gross anatomy" than an minute "inspection". A sauce too sweet or too spicy or whatever should influence the scoring not at all.
    Again...theoretically.
    Agree totally, but I dont care what anyone teaches or says, personal preference does play a role, even though its not supposed to.

    An example: At one of the comps I've judged, a person at one of the tables stated (after the chicken was done being judged), "Pork isnt my favorite meat. I'll eat it, but I'd rather not".

    This was passed on to some of the other judges after all judging was completed.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Richtee View Post
      And it was explained to us as such. The "taste" category is more about the smoke, salt level... etc. more a "gross anatomy" than an minute "inspection". A sauce too sweet or too spicy or whatever should influence the scoring not at all.
      Again...theoretically.
      Human taste buds are SO different from person to person that using "taste" as a category leads to too much randomness in judging. Even trying to judge smoke or salt can't really find a happy medium. What is salty to one person isn't to another. For instance the discussion here last week on various brands of cajun seasonings.
      I've racked my brains trying to come up with meals so that I can invite my friends that live across the street over for dinner, but it's extremely hard. Even at home they have to prepare 2-3 different courses for meals because none of the 3 people living in the house like any of the same foods.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Crewdawg52 View Post
        Agree totally, but I dont care what anyone teaches or says, personal preference does play a role, even though its not supposed to.
        That is exactly it. Even if the judge is trying to be impartial to his or her own preferences...it still has to have an influence on some level. Even if is just by one point it will affect the final scoring outcome.
        KCBS/CBJ #56408

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        • #19
          way i look at is 10-20 teams win say 75% of comps they enter almost anywhere....They have hit on something....

          we took a first in a categorie in big comp in massachusetts last year and one element of that was a flavor that we wouldnt have won deleware and virginia state champs with if used last year at those comps...

          I would like to see judging classes more detailed orientated...Been a big push it seems last few years for KCBS to get big or be biggest dog...I know for fact some judging classes are run horribly and others are much more in depth etc...

          We shoot for perfectly smoked meat with a nice balanced profile...i would serve it to anyone,but toned down a little...
          Last edited by ALX; 02-28-2011, 02:15 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Crewdawg52 View Post
            "I aint cookin fer me. I'm cookin for the judges". Cause I'm like Rich, the sauces that win ARE NOT what I use at home (unless I'm practicing).
            Very interesting that they don't ever reference what sauces they consider good in the rules.

            After three KCBS events, (one more in Loveland in April) if my barbeque ends up in the bottom 12 of the pack again I will be done with KCBS entries and just go for the open classes and the public tastings.

            I think with three competitions completed and always being in the bottom 12 people I can assume that what I make and sell for barbeque is not what they are taught to place as good barbeque.

            I have been judged and gotten the answers, the answer to me is I should not do KCBS events as they are looking for something I don't make.

            I am happy for those that want to figure out what magical taste profile that KCBS hides, I know they do well and I hope they continue to do well. For me, if Loveland shows they still don't like what I make, we will go do the specials and PARTY!
            Tour the New Rig Here!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bbally View Post
              Very interesting that they don't ever reference what sauces they consider good in the rules.

              After three KCBS events, (one more in Loveland in April) if my barbeque ends up in the bottom 12 of the pack again I will be done with KCBS entries and just go for the open classes and the public tastings.

              I think with three competitions completed and always being in the bottom 12 people I can assume that what I make and sell for barbeque is not what they are taught to place as good barbeque.

              I have been judged and gotten the answers, the answer to me is I should not do KCBS events as they are looking for something I don't make.

              I am happy for those that want to figure out what magical taste profile that KCBS hides, I know they do well and I hope they continue to do well. For me, if Loveland shows they still don't like what I make, we will go do the specials and PARTY!
              Heck..I wish we didnt use sauce and let the meat and rub profile do the talking...Some sauces have become so prevalent(mixture blues hog and tennessee red etc..) that judges are scoring that down as a boycott(from what ive heard)...We take pride in making our rubs etc...Hell,,I grow a lot of the ingredients...
              Last edited by ALX; 02-28-2011, 01:42 PM.

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              • #22
                The human factor complicates it, but also makes it what it is.

                The regional twist keeps it interesting too. Its a game that we all play by the same rules. I don't mind the differences, but I do wish the Judges could be a bit closer on their scores. It really sucks to get all 8's and 9's except for one judge who scores it a 4 or 5. WTH.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ALX View Post
                  Heck..I wish we didnt use sauce and let the meat and rub profile do the talking...
                  I wanna, but won't... hug you.
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Capt Dan View Post
                    but I do wish the Judges could be a bit closer on their scores. It really sucks to get all 8's and 9's except for one judge who scores it a 4 or 5. WTH.
                    Happened to us at Dover comp....We were 6th in ribs and 10th in brisket and chicken...we were 52 outta 56 teams in pork...A good categorie for us always...Had a 4 score with no comment card.... Never had a score close to 4 even when we started...

                    Phil and his wife hung out that day and i believe his comment was"DID THEY DROP THE BOX"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ALX View Post
                      Heck..I wish we didnt use sauce and let the meat and rub profile do the talking
                      Is sauce mandatory?
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mikey View Post
                        Is sauce mandatory?
                        If your cooking KCBS you better sauce....Not sure mandatory,but never heard folk not saucing.Brisket only categorie i know of some folk dont sauce..I believe ICBA(texas area) they dont sauce....

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ALX View Post
                          Happened to us at Dover comp....We were 6th in ribs and 10th in brisket and chicken...we were 52 outta 56 teams in pork...A good categorie for us always...Had a 4 score with no comment card.... Never had a score close to 4 even when we started...

                          Phil and his wife hung out that day and i believe his comment was"DID THEY DROP THE BOX"
                          That was friggin' unbelievable!

                          Our scores have been all over the place between judges. One gave us 8s and 9s, and one gave us 4s and 5s... same table. How can the same piece of meat be really good at one end of the table, and a piece of shit at the other end?

                          I agree, the human factor is there... no denying that. Also, the lack of experienced judges is a huge factor around here. I just learned that the Salisbury, MD comp this year has 184 teams! Shoot, last year they had 131 teams and had really piss poor judging. How are they gonna manage that large of a crowd? Not going to that one...


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by HawgHeaven View Post
                            That was friggin' unbelievable!

                            Our scores have been all over the place between judges. One gave us 8s and 9s, and one gave us 4s and 5s... same table. How can the same piece of meat be really good at one end of the table, and a piece of shit at the other end?

                            I agree, the human factor is there... no denying that. Also, the lack of experienced judges is a huge factor around here. I just learned that the Salisbury, MD comp this year has 184 teams! Shoot, last year they had 131 teams and had really piss poor judging. How are they gonna manage that large of a crowd? Not going to that one...
                            WOW...we were thinking of doing it since we heard only 50 or so teams...We feel same as you PHIL.After doing it last 3 years its just to hard get that many good judges etc...

                            Be nice to meet up at middletown,deleware....That is reasonable size competition.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ALX View Post
                              WOW...we were thinking of doing it since we heard only 50 or so teams...We feel same as you PHIL.After doing it last 3 years its just to hard get that many good judges etc...

                              Be nice to meet up at middletown,deleware....That is reasonable size competition.
                              I'm mailing my app for Middletown this evening... they already have 24 teams listed on thier website... git-r-dun! It'll be a ton of fun to hook up again Alex...


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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ALX View Post
                                If your cooking KCBS you better sauce....Not sure mandatory,but never heard folk not saucing.Brisket only categorie i know of some folk dont sauce..I believe ICBA(texas area) they dont sauce....
                                Barbeque does not have sauce on it! Sauce is to cover up barbeque that is not any good!
                                Tour the New Rig Here!

                                Sgt. USMC '79-'85

                                S-M inmate number 12

                                RIP ronP

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