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  • Ambient temps and cold smoking

    Trying to wrap my head around extended cold smoking times and food safety. Is the 4 hour rule not followed since a cure was used? Are there any other rules to follow to ensure a safe product? I'm familiar/ comfortable with determining the amount of cure as well as the curing times so this is strictly for the smoking aspect.
    Thanks


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  • #2
    Yes... the cure is what allows the extended time in the “danger zone”. Up here in the winter it IS possible to cold smoke without cure with the proper setup..the smoke chamber would never reach 40°. But unlikely there.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Richtee View Post
      Up here in the winter it IS possible to cold smoke without cure with the proper setup..the smoke chamber would never reach 40°.
      Excellent advice once again by our favorite Hunky, but if I may add to what Rich just said...


      There is an exception for cold smoking Cheese...you gotta heat that shit up to about 72,496° in order to get a proper drip on it.

      In fact, this is generally seen on the Michigan skyline when Rich fires up the cheese smoker



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      • #4
        Originally posted by BBQ Engineer View Post
        There is an exception for cold smoking Cheese...you gotta heat that shit up to about 72,496° in order to get a proper drip on it.

        In fact, this is generally seen on the Michigan skyline when Rich fires up the cheese smoker

        I own it. Laser etched on the tombstone I figger... one of the best pix I ever took too... Figgers.
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        • #5
          Add cure,,, I just did some brats this summer,,, added cure, cold smoked for about 4hrs, then thru them in the freezer for later on,, and still need to cook before consuming but you talk about taste,,, we do alot of our breakfast sausage this way also.
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          • #6
            I believe cure adds..something..to the finished flavor. To define it has escaped me. But I swear it does.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by driedstick View Post
              Add cure,,, I just did some brats this summer,,, added cure, cold smoked for about 4hrs, then thru them in the freezer for later on,, and still need to cook before consuming but you talk about taste,,, we do alot of our breakfast sausage this way also.


              I'm by cure you are talking about TQ? How much per pound?

              My question was centered around making bacon from a pork belly I picked up at Costco, along with a whole boneless prime rib but that is for another story. On the bacon I was going to use 1 tbls per pound of TQ, brown sugar and 10 day curing time.
              Going to work my way into making some sausage once I get some things caught up.
              Thanks for chiming in


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              • #8
                Originally posted by strength_and_power View Post
                I'm by cure you are talking about TQ? How much per pound?

                My question was centered around making bacon from a pork belly I picked up at Costco, along with a whole boneless prime rib but that is for another story. On the bacon I was going to use 1 tbls per pound of TQ, brown sugar and 10 day curing time.
                Going to work my way into making some sausage once I get some things caught up.
                Don’t have to be TQ, but it’s prolly the most foolproof stuff. generally 1 Tbsp/Lb is the call. Personally I use slightly less and cure a bit longer. Less salt.

                There are lots of posts in the Bacon forum discussing different cures and methods. Check ‘em out- prolly all your questions are answered there, and some you din’t know to ask yet too
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                • #9
                  don't go with tq.
                  Use cure #1 for things only curig for a short time - I often add it to marinades.
                  And cure #2 for anything that's curing for a couple days up to a couple years.

                  Reason being. You use a really tiny amount of cure, which means you have total control of the amout of salt you add. TQ is much too salt heavy in my mind.

                  Temperature wise - well cold smoking is not just about curing.
                  It also dries out the meat as well, and the less water the safer it is.
                  So if you dry cure something for a few days before smoking, you'll drastically reduce the amount of AW (active water) available for bacteria and pretty much not worry about the cold smoking temp. Though obviously it needs to be low enough that you're not cooking the meat/cheese/fish/gator.

                  Okay I live in a relatively cold country where there are maybe a dozen days a year it's too hot to cold smoke, unless you do it over night - a lot of you guys live in actual ovens, so need to take way more precautions than I do :-)
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                  • #10
                    i've "cold smoked" bacon at or just above 100 deg for 8-10 hrs with no problems.........
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Richtee View Post
                      Don’t have to be TQ, but it’s prolly the most foolproof stuff. generally 1 Tbsp/Lb is the call. Personally I use slightly less and cure a bit longer. Less salt.

                      There are lots of posts in the Bacon forum discussing different cures and methods. Check ‘em out- prolly all your questions are answered there, and some you din’t know to ask yet too


                      Actually for whole meats they call for 1 TBS of TQ per pound (Bacon, Dried Beef, CB, BBB, etc)

                      But for Ground meat, like sausage, it is 1/2 TBS of TQ per pound of Ground Meat.


                      Don't ask me why, because with cure #1 it's the same for whole meat & for Ground meat. I always wondered why.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chefrob View Post
                        i've "cold smoked" bacon at or just above 100 deg for 8-10 hrs with no problems.........
                        That's almost hot smoking! Buttttttt, same here!
                        Some of us don't have much choice, gonna be hot!

                        Originally posted by Bearcarver View Post
                        Actually for whole meats they call for 1 TBS of TQ per pound (Bacon, Dried Beef, CB, BBB, etc)

                        But for Ground meat, like sausage, it is 1/2 TBS of TQ per pound of Ground Meat.



                        Don't ask me why, because with cure #1 it's the same for whole meat & for Ground meat. I always wondered why.

                        Bear
                        I know I've read that before but it doesn't sound right?? But then I don't use TQ because of the salt.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Richtee View Post
                          Don’t have to be TQ, but it’s prolly the most foolproof stuff. generally 1 Tbsp/Lb is the call. Personally I use slightly less and cure a bit longer. Less salt.



                          There are lots of posts in the Bacon forum discussing different cures and methods. Check ‘em out- prolly all your questions are answered there, and some you din’t know to ask yet too


                          I've definitely been reading. Going to stick to the 1tbls/LB for at least the first few rounds to establish my own baseline.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by curious aardvark View Post
                            don't go with tq.

                            Use cure #1 for things only curig for a short time - I often add it to marinades.

                            And cure #2 for anything that's curing for a couple days up to a couple years.



                            Reason being. You use a really tiny amount of cure, which means you have total control of the amout of salt you add. TQ is much too salt heavy in my mind.



                            Temperature wise - well cold smoking is not just about curing.

                            It also dries out the meat as well, and the less water the safer it is.

                            So if you dry cure something for a few days before smoking, you'll drastically reduce the amount of AW (active water) available for bacteria and pretty much not worry about the cold smoking temp. Though obviously it needs to be low enough that you're not cooking the meat/cheese/fish/gator.



                            Okay I live in a relatively cold country where there are maybe a dozen days a year it's too hot to cold smoke, unless you do it over night - a lot of you guys live in actual ovens, so need to take way more precautions than I do :-)


                            When you add to marinades, what is your method for determining how much to use? In a marinade I would consider the cure similar to a seasoning and not cure if that makes sense?
                            Rarely am I just cooking one of anything so I don't see it being too difficult to split what I'm making, one regular, one with cure and have a side by side comparison.



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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bearcarver View Post
                              Actually for whole meats they call for 1 TBS of TQ per pound (Bacon, Dried Beef, CB, BBB, etc)

                              But for Ground meat, like sausage, it is 1/2 TBS of TQ per pound of Ground Meat.

                              Don't ask me why, because with cure #1 it's the same for whole meat & for Ground meat. I always wondered why.
                              Well..simply put... it’s a concentration Vs. cure time Vs. salt content thing.

                              There is sufficient nitrate/ite in TQ to cure at a smaller amount, allowing more time to do so. And..as it also HAS the nitrate... it will stick around when the reduced nitRITE has gone to NO..which is actually what does the curing.

                              The reason to use the smaller amounts in jerky/sausage is you get 100% salt absorption..or close to it in these products due to the large surface area as opposed to the hunk of whole muscle meat.

                              #1 has no such salt levels per say, and IS nitrite, therefore does NOT hang around for extended times. Matter of fact..once you smoke jerky/cook bacon..there are practically NO nitrites left in it. NITRATES will hang out somewhat..and that’s a bad thing when ya burn yer bacon if it has nitrate in it. That’s those nasty nitrosamine compounds you hear the whackos screaming about

                              On Edit: Needless to say one must ADD salt to the process when using #1...slightly complicating things.
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                              Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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