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  • #31
    Getting a bit late in the year (or maybe not) for this, but there is a meat processor near where I live and will be checking to see if they kill hogs. If so, I may get some belly from them and venture down this path.

    But, I notice Bear smokes his bacons at higher temps.......125 plus. And the Husband of the Beautiful Ms. Tas cold smoked his. Does this matter or change things?

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    • #32
      Man that sure looks good
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      • #33
        Originally posted by hog warden View Post
        Getting a bit late in the year (or maybe not) for this, but there is a meat processor near where I live and will be checking to see if they kill hogs. If so, I may get some belly from them and venture down this path.

        But, I notice Bear smokes his bacons at higher temps.......125 plus. And the Husband of the Beautiful Ms. Tas cold smoked his. Does this matter or change things?

        To me that seems to be a matter of opinion:
        I've done Belly Bacon in many ways, and I find Cold smoking & Warm (not hot) smoking to be the best two ways.
        I can get great color & flavor from Cold smoking Belly Bacon in 20 to 30 or more hours.
        However, using a small amount of heat (between 110° and 130°) I can get at least that same color & flavor in about 10 or 11 hours. And I have never had any Bacon fat render at temps below 130, even with small spikes to 140°.


        Bear
        Vietnam Vet---9th Inf. Div. Mekong Delta (1969)
        Easy to follow Step By Steps: Pulled Cured Boston Butt Ham and Buckboard Bacon--Smoked Salmon-- Bacon-On-A-Stick--Bacon (Extra Smokey)--Boneless Cured & Smoked Pork Chops & CB--Canadian Bacon & Dried Beef--Ham Twins (Double Smoked)--Double Smoked Hams X 4--Bear Logs (All Beef--Unstuffed)--Smoked Bear Loaf (All Beef-Mild Hot)--Prime Rib (My Best ever)--Another Prime Rib--Chucky (Pulled Beef)--Twin Chuckies--Pork and Beef Spares--Rare Beef (for Sammies)--Raspberry Chiffon Pie---


        Mom & 4 Cub litter---Potter County, PA:

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        • #34
          That being the case (warm smoke OK), then I figure the only way I'll get to sample this stuff is to give it a try myself.

          Called the place that I figured would have fresh bellies and they did. Asked how fresh and was told they were still on the hoof two days ago. How many you want? How many you got? 100. Took 2 at $2 per pound. (Yorkshires BTW, not that it matters)

          Was wondering about sourcing the maple sugar, but then remembered a couple places that might have it and both did. Both almost within walking distance of my house and probably not another place within 30 miles.

          So I'll be attempting to follow TAS on this adventure, doing one with maple sugar and spices and one with brown sugar. Otherwise will treat them both the same.

          Will chime in if questions arise, otherwise will report back when finished.

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          • #36
            The deed is done and they are bagged and in the refer. Mine averaged about 9# per slab, so I did three bags of 3 pounds +/- each. One was pushing 4 pounds and that was about the limit of what would fit into a 1 gallon zip lock bag.

            After seeing it all in one big pile, there was this big gulp sound that might have come from me, as I realized that is a pretty big supply of something I don't know how will come out. But.......in for a penny, in for a pound.......go big or go home........no guts, no glory.......pick your saying. With tracks like these to follow from Taz and Bear, what could go wrong? These did come with the skin on and after doing a quick bit of research, concluded it would be OK for now to leave on. With limited smoker space and this many to do, I plan on ordering some bacon hooks to smoke them on and the skin is supposed to help with that. Bacon hooks too? In for a penny...........

            Since simple minds need a simple process, I rounded my measures up to 1 tbs per pound of bacon for the Black Forest spice and maple sugar. Also used 1 tbs per pound for the brown sugar. I figured is Taz was going to double his amounts from 1 tbs to 2 tbs / 1.5 pounds, I'd go halfway.

            Also, to keep this simple, I used a gram scale for the TQ. I measured 1 tbs TQ and found it weighed 14 grams, which also happens to be equal to 1/2 oz per conversion charts (28 grams / oz). Then all I had to do was weigh each slab and multiply the pounds x 14. Did the same with the brown sugar as it is almost impossible to measure accurately, due to the clumping. It looks right.

            Pumped about the maple sugar. It was not at all what I expected it to be. Really good, subtle maple flavor, but not sweet like sucrose. Mine cost more, as a 6 oz bag was about $8. But I think the one small bag will also do all 9# of the bacon, so will not be any surplus to go to waste.

            Also, I cut the amount of BF spice mix in half, and I didn't use half of what I made. For one slab of bacon, a person could probably cut that recipe to 1/4 and still have enough. It might matter since of a person doesn't have fresh spices, as to buy those in those amounts is expensive. Odd that the same place that had the maple sugar (one of those organic, natural food places) had spices I'd never heard of (ground dock root?), had cardamom pods, seeds and ground cardamom seeds, and probably had eye of newt.......but not a single jar of mace in the store, and only one small jar of white pepper. Strange place.

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            • #37
              Looks Awesome Ron!
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              • #38
                Third day in and some of the larger bags (3 1/2# plus) have as much as 1/4 cup liquid sloshing around. I assume that is normal?

                Apparently some of the traditional ways did these dry stacked in boxes that stayed put (were not flipped over)......and allowed the liquid to drain off?

                Also, you can really smell the BF spices.......even through the bag.

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                • #39
                  Originally posted by hog warden View Post
                  Third day in and some of the larger bags (3 1/2# plus) have as much as 1/4 cup liquid sloshing around. I assume that is normal?

                  Apparently some of the traditional ways did these dry stacked in boxes that stayed put (were not flipped over)......and allowed the liquid to drain off?

                  Also, you can really smell the BF spices.......even through the bag.

                  That's normal. They all get different amounts of liquid in them. Just leave it in there. The cure needs that to carry it through the meat.
                  I believe the ones that allow the liquid to drain off had a lot more salt (cure) to begin with----And to end up with.


                  Bear
                  Vietnam Vet---9th Inf. Div. Mekong Delta (1969)
                  Easy to follow Step By Steps: Pulled Cured Boston Butt Ham and Buckboard Bacon--Smoked Salmon-- Bacon-On-A-Stick--Bacon (Extra Smokey)--Boneless Cured & Smoked Pork Chops & CB--Canadian Bacon & Dried Beef--Ham Twins (Double Smoked)--Double Smoked Hams X 4--Bear Logs (All Beef--Unstuffed)--Smoked Bear Loaf (All Beef-Mild Hot)--Prime Rib (My Best ever)--Another Prime Rib--Chucky (Pulled Beef)--Twin Chuckies--Pork and Beef Spares--Rare Beef (for Sammies)--Raspberry Chiffon Pie---


                  Mom & 4 Cub litter---Potter County, PA:

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                  • #40
                    What John said! ^^

                    Sounds to me as though everything is on schedule. Keep us in the loop and report on your progress!
                    Fundamentals matter.



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                    • #41
                      Have spent way too much time messing with this.....such is the case when you are cursed with a curious mind.

                      Found this on what a salt box or curing box was supposed to be:


                      BOX FOR CURING The box should be strongly made and should be water tight. Hard wood, such as oak or maple, is the best material to use. The size should be approximately the length and width of the bacon bellies, about 10" wide and 20" long. The height can be determined by the number of bellies to be cured at one time. A box about 24" high will hold the bellies from five or six hogs.

                      The top can be made in order to fit just inside of the box to be held down by a weight or hinged onto the box. If hinged, an extra slat tray should be made to place on top of the meat in order that the box top will press the tray against the meat and hold it under pressure while curing. The pressure should be firm but not heavy.
                      Water tight? That would indicate you want to retain the liquid (or want it that way to avoid having it drain out and making a mess on the floor), and that particular reference didn't say anything about unpacking and restacking, so no telling what was going to happen in there. What happens to the bottom slabs won't be the same as the ones on the top. That can't be good.

                      Others suggest draining the liquid and I've found references to holes in the box to allow the liquid to drain off naturally and even others repacking or putting so much salt on in the first place it stays dry. That would be too salty to eat.

                      But most seem to be OK with a wet brine mix and the method of placing these slabs in plastic bags seems to do this well, as it controls the amount of salt/cure/sugar each piece gets. Controlled and entirely repeatable with consistent results expected. So all grins and giggles with the plastic bags and on autopilot for now.

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                      • #42
                        After reading your post, I was reminded of an account of how whole muscle meats are cured in places like Romania and Slovakia. They do indeed use a wooden box or tub, similar to what you write about above. The liquid runs off, and then they usually re-apply it to the meat, as I remember. I might have to see if I can find that informaiton again. The one thing I remember is that they are pretty informal about it, but the process seems to be similar along a wide swath of geographical area.

                        In any case, I've noticed the drainage with the curing process is just another step as the bacon (or other cured meat) progresses. It seems that by the time the process is over, the meat sucks it back up again in some sort of osmosis/equalisation process. I don't know the science of it, but it makes sense, in order to keep the cure in the meat, where it belongs.
                        Last edited by TasunkaWitko; 04-06-2015, 02:51 PM.
                        Fundamentals matter.



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                        • #43
                          Day 10, the tenth day.

                          Pulled the pig parts, rinsed and scrubbed them off. Decided to try a slice of each and quickly concluded these are way too salty as is. Salt overwhelms all else, but we are accustomed to eating what you find in the store, so this may be right and we are not used to it?

                          Not sure what to do about this, except to soak them in water, changing water often. That will pull some of the salt out, but not sure how much or how long to tone these down. An hour didn't do it. A day or overnight might. Any suggestions on how to tone this down would be welcome.

                          First opinion on the BF maple sugar/spice option is it has a mild pleasant taste very similar to the spice mix that went into it. Hard to really judge until the salt level comes down. But get the salt level down, get it smoked and this has potential!!!

                          Sugar level is also evident in both options, with browning / caramelization similar to what we found with some commercial bacon sold as "old time sugar cured" bacon.

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                          • #44
                            These are strange results. Mine had noticeable salt flavour but by no means could have been called overly-salty (except by my wife!) ~ the only difference I can see between mine and yours is that I measured by tablespoon rather than weighing, but that shouldn't have made much (or any) difference. Also, you are tasting your bacon in the middle of the process, whereas I didn't taste mine until it was finished.

                            Question - when you weighed the tablespoon, did you use a level tablesoon, or a rounded tablespoon? This will of course make a difference.

                            Solutions: I have three ideas, but can only speculate on their effectiveness:

                            1. Soaking - I can't imagine it would take more than another hour of soaking (cold water); on all of my whole-muscle charcuterie products, I've never had to soak longer than half an hour, and even those times I question whether it was "necessary."

                            2. Allow time for equalisation - When I made my bacon, I did not do a fry test until the bacon was finished, on the grounds that I have never had issues before and ddin't want to mess with the procedure, especially in the middle of the whole process. What I did was go directly to the next "phase" of the curing process, where I dusted the slabs with maple sugar (only) on the meat side (only), and then put them back to the refrigerator so that salt content and the maple characteristics could equalise throughout the thickness of the bacon. I saw a diagram once showing after so many days, the percentage of salt was more concentrated near the surface, but after so many more days, the content was more equal throughout the entire slab. This is in my opinion will do the most good, as it will also allow the maple sugar to work its magic and counter the imbalance of salt flavour.

                            3. Cut back on the TQ by 20% - This makes very good sense, since the amount of fat in bacon is extensive, and the amount of curable meat is less than in most other charcuterie projects. Since you've weighed your measurements, this will be a matter of simple math, and should be easy to calculate; the only thing to remember is that you want to add a couple of days' curing time in order to ensure thorough curing. Richtee has done some work in this area and has demonstrated that this method will work for people who are super-sensitive to salt or on low-salt diets. Unfortunately, this option won't do much for your current batch of bacon, but it might come in handy for your next.

                            Of these choices, I think that Option #2 will give you the best results.
                            Last edited by TasunkaWitko; 04-13-2015, 12:55 PM.
                            Fundamentals matter.



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                            • #45
                              what did you use for curing salt ?

                              And tas - bear in mind that you have a very high tolearance and taste for salty goods.
                              Everyone is different.

                              This is why you should use cure 2 and then add salt to your own personal taste.
                              For bacon I tend to go for a 3% by weight salt cure. And to me that's pretty salty. By comparison if you use TQ by weight I think it adds up to somewhere around the 4-5% mark.
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