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  #20  
Old 05-18-2016, 01:54 PM
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Hey Bear, got a question for you on this one. I see you're using 1/2 Tablespoon of tender quick per pound for this. From what I've seen most places recommend a whole tablespoon for whole muscle curing and a half for ground meats. I'm not sure why the difference exists in the first place, but can you comment why this recipe uses the amount for ground meat and not whole muscle?
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by PitRow View Post
Hey Bear, got a question for you on this one. I see you're using 1/2 Tablespoon of tender quick per pound for this. From what I've seen most places recommend a whole tablespoon for whole muscle curing and a half for ground meats. I'm not sure why the difference exists in the first place, but can you comment why this recipe uses the amount for ground meat and not whole muscle?
You don’t cure it whole muscle. You cure it sliced.
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Richtee View Post
You don’t cure it whole muscle. You cure it sliced.
right, but it's also not ground. I suppose with such a thin slice it probably acts more like ground though. Can you explain why the difference in cure amounts for the two though? To my feeble brain, meat is meat, it should need the same amount of cure regardless of if it's ground or whole.

The only possible explanation that I can come up with on my own is the whole muscle needs more because some of the nitrite breaks down before it's made it into the muscle, where the ground meat has so much surface area that it can penetrate quickly enough to not need the extra?
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PitRow View Post
Hey Bear, got a question for you on this one. I see you're using 1/2 Tablespoon of tender quick per pound for this. From what I've seen most places recommend a whole tablespoon for whole muscle curing and a half for ground meats. I'm not sure why the difference exists in the first place, but can you comment why this recipe uses the amount for ground meat and not whole muscle?


Good Question:
Depending on which Morton's book you look at, you will see 2 different methods for using TQ on Jerky.

#1 The one method is to use 1 TBS per pound of sliced Jerky, and curing it for 1 Hour.

#2 The other method is to use 1/2 TBS of TQ, and curing it for 24 Hours.

I used the #2 method because I think it gives it a more even spreading over the 24 hours than hitting it harder for one hour.

Bear
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  #24  
Old 05-18-2016, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PitRow View Post
right, but it's also not ground. I suppose with such a thin slice it probably acts more like ground though. Can you explain why the difference in cure amounts for the two though? To my feeble brain, meat is meat, it should need the same amount of cure regardless of if it's ground or whole.

The only possible explanation that I can come up with on my own is the whole muscle needs more because some of the nitrite breaks down before it's made it into the muscle, where the ground meat has so much surface area that it can penetrate quickly enough to not need the extra?
It IS considered “ground”. Therefore absorbs the cure- AND salt..much more efficiently. The half tablespoon cure is plenty to take care of the job on the slices. And since the salt is more efficiently absorbed... you only need half the amount as opposed to a bigger hunk.
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Old 05-18-2016, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Richtee View Post
It IS considered “ground”. Therefore absorbs the cure- AND salt..much more efficiently. The half tablespoon cure is plenty to take care of the job on the slices. And since the salt is more efficiently absorbed... you only need half the amount as opposed to a bigger hunk.

I stated the two ways Mortons suggests above:
1TBS for one hour, or 1/2 TBS for 24 hours.

I always wondered about their difference between Ground & whole meat too, and I always figured it the same way you just stated.

However---------Now explain to me why Cure #1 is used in the same amounts for both whole meat AND Ground Meat.

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  #26  
Old 05-18-2016, 07:07 PM
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However---------Now explain to me why Cure #1 is used in the same amounts for both whole meat AND Ground Meat.

Bear
Salt content. Most all cure recipes have a slight excess of nitrate/ite. Within Gov’t recommendations hopefully..but even those guidelines are a little overkill.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Richtee View Post
Salt content. Most all cure recipes have a slight excess of nitrate/ite. Within Gov’t recommendations hopefully..but even those guidelines are a little overkill.

That doesn't explain why we use twice as much TQ on Whole meat than we do on Ground meat.

Then turn around & use the same amount of Cure #1 on both Whole meat & Ground meat.

I've been wondering about that one for years, and I'm still wondering. Apparently you are too, because you have no real answer.


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Old 05-19-2016, 03:30 PM
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It’s the SALT. NOT the cure. Cure 1 “has no salt” (at 1 tbsp/5 pounds)

TQ is “diluted”, yet contains enough cure at the reduced rates..TO ACCOUNT FOR THE SALT so as to be an effective curing agent.
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Richtee View Post
It’s the SALT. NOT the cure. Cure 1 “has no salt” (at 1 tbsp/5 pounds)

TQ is “diluted”, yet contains enough cure at the reduced rates..TO ACCOUNT FOR THE SALT so as to be an effective curing agent.

That has nothing to do with it because you are supposed to add salt when you use Cure #1.
TQ isn't diluted. It has the same amount of cure as what is needed with Cure #1.
5 TBS of TQ has the same amount of cure in it as 1tsp of Cure #1. That is good for 5 pounds of whole meat.

If you don't know the answer, don't make up a story that has nothing to do with it. Someone else might know the answer---I don't. I've just been blindly following the instructions for 7 years.


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Old 05-19-2016, 08:06 PM
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The answer is... TQ has enough cure at half the whole muscle amount for ground thin meat due to quicker absorbtion. You could use less cure 1 in ground/jerky and be fine.

OK

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Old 05-19-2016, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearcarver View Post
TQ isn't diluted. It has the same amount of cure as what is needed with Cure #1.
5 TBS of TQ has the same amount of cure in it as 1tsp of Cure #1. That is good for 5 pounds of whole meat.
If TQ isn't diluted then wouldn't 1tsp of Cure #1 equal 1tsp of TQ?

5 TBS = 15 tsp. So 15 tsp of TQ has the same amount of cure in it as 1tsp of Cure #1.

Appears to be diluted by a factor of 15.

Cure #1 is way more concentrated than TQ. Which is probably why they recommend the same amount of #1 for whole muscle as for ground. It would be pretty tough to mix 1/2 tsp of cure thoroughly into 5 pounds of ground meat.
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Old 05-20-2016, 10:27 AM
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The answer is... TQ has enough cure at half the whole muscle amount for ground thin meat due to quicker absorbtion. You could use less cure 1 in ground/jerky and be fine.

OK

Now that part makes sense------If it's OK to use less Cure #1 with ground meat, that would answer the question. So why isn't that mentioned in any recipes or safety bulletins.


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If TQ isn't diluted then wouldn't 1tsp of Cure #1 equal 1tsp of TQ?

5 TBS = 15 tsp. So 15 tsp of TQ has the same amount of cure in it as 1tsp of Cure #1.

Appears to be diluted by a factor of 15.

Cure #1 is way more concentrated than TQ. Which is probably why they recommend the same amount of #1 for whole muscle as for ground. It would be pretty tough to mix 1/2 tsp of cure thoroughly into 5 pounds of ground meat.

Of course that is true. However The cure isn't diluted---It's Mixed to an exacting point.
What I meant by not diluted is not diluted when used as directed. We use 12.5 Times as much TQ as how much Cure #1 is used per the same amount of meat, in order to get the same amount of cure in the meat.
So if we use 12.5 times as much with whole meat, then why do we only use 6.25 times as much for ground meat.
The only answer I can see is what Rich said last----That you could also use less Cure #1 on ground meat. If that's true, that sorta answers my original question.

And on your last point---Mixing 1/2 tsp of Cure #1 in 5 pounds of ground meat, wouldn't be any harder than applying 1tsp of Cure #1 to 5 pounds of Pork Belly. Which is one of the reasons I use TQ in the first place.

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Old 05-20-2016, 12:09 PM
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Another thing about Cure 1..it is short lived.By the time you are done smoking/drying the meats..it’s about gone if not completey turned into... wait for it... laughing gas

Not true with TQ and Cure 2 tho..so one needs to be a little more careful with those, and use correct..MINIMAL amounts. Cure 2 more so than TQ..but TQ still has nitrate.

FYI..the reaction goes nitrate converts to nitrite which converts to NO2. Strangely enough..it’s the NO2 that actually cures the meat..NOT the Nitrate/ites. This is also where the “smoke ring” comes from.
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Old 05-20-2016, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Richtee View Post
Another thing about Cure 1..it is short lived.By the time you are done smoking/drying the meats..it’s about gone if not completey turned into... wait for it... laughing gas

Not true with TQ and Cure 2 tho..so one needs to be a little more careful with those, and use correct..MINIMAL amounts. Cure 2 more so than TQ..but TQ still has nitrate.

FYI..the reaction goes nitrate converts to nitrite which converts to NO2


Very Interesting---Thanks Rich!!

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