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  • #16
    Question on jerky, I have always used Hi Mountain Cure which is seasoned. It calls for 24 hour cure time in the frig. Then, I marinade for another 24 hours to get the flavor I'm looking for.

    The ultimate question is, can I wet cure with the marinade at the same time or should I stick with keeping them distinct

    Also, since it calls for a 24 hours cure, if I understand it correctly, you can't over cure but can under cure. So, any issue with a 48 hour wet cure or even dry dure in that regard? That said, would I have to soak the meat possible to get rid of wome of the salt taste?

    Used to be easy, maybe I'm over thinking this a bit too much.
    Last edited by Abelman; 07-15-2009, 03:58 PM.
    Pete
    Large BGE
    Char Broil Tru-Infrared Commercial series

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    • #17
      I toss the cure into the marinade that usually has a base of Worcestershire and soy sauce. No need to cure then flavor. Mix everything together. 1 day is good, 3 days is better.
      Keith

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      • #18
        Thanks, perhaps I'll give it a try. I use Allegro Hot and Spicy which is mostly worcestershire sauce and then throw the heat in there and see what happens. Thx
        Pete
        Large BGE
        Char Broil Tru-Infrared Commercial series

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        • #19
          Can't hurt to mix and try it all in one.
          but like it mentions earlier in this thread - if the cure contains a high percentage of salt be careful what salt you add to the marinade - ie: use low sodium soy sauce.
          Made In England - Fine Tuned By The USA
          Just call me 'One Grind'



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          • #20
            Bump for Vermin

            Bump
            In God I trust- All others pay cash...
            Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
            Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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            • #21
              Very informative, as I persue my first jerky adventure soon.
              Lang 36 Patio, a few Webers, 2 Eggs, plenty of gadgets and a MES 40 Gen 2.5 electric for bacon and sausage.
              My best asset however is the inspiration from the members on this forum.

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              • #22
                Thanks Rich for reminding me that i need to make some jerky...
                Craig
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                • #23
                  thanks for this. found me some lean meat on the way home. i feel a new project comin on....
                  New Braunfels Black Diamond
                  18.5" WSM
                  Weber Performer Deluxe Black
                  18.5 Weber Kettle
                  22.5 Weber Kettle
                  Maverick ET732
                  6, 8, 10 and 12' Lodge DO

                  Smoked Meat Misfits: "the change it had to come. We knew it all along. We were liberated from the fold, that's all" - The Who.

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                  • #24
                    I agree with you about freezing meat first before using it, it is one of the factors in the "hurdel concept" of sausage making. First start with the freshest meat possible then freeze it at - 18F for at least 21 days. This means in a real freezer, not the one on top of a fridge. Then of course a sanitized environement. Never let meat get warmer than 40F when processing it below 5F is ideal. If your meat needs to be grinded more than once, use the course plate first, let the first grind rest for ten minutes then use the smaller plate (when you grind meat, it raises its temperature by 6F so the importance of letting the meat get cold again before regrinding it). Use the right chemicals: for dry cure and dry sausage, use potassium(or sodium) nitrate (saltpetre) cure #2. For brine or any sausage that does not need to be cured for a long time, use sodium nitrite cure#1. Another Hurdle is ascorbic acid, it prevents oxidation, and it also stabilizes the color in your finished product (it can be replaced by sodium erythorbate). For Jerky, I use ground inside round, a Jerky gun, and a dehydrator. I use 1 ts of sodium nitrite per 5 pound of meat. I use dextrose instead of sugar because it provoques the same chemical reaction with the sodium nitrite but it tastes less sugary which alows me to put a little bit less salt. I also use liquid smoke.
                    Wisdom is intelligence shaped by experience.

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                    • #25
                      for dry cure and dry sausage, use potassium(or sodium) nitrate (saltpetre) cure #2. For brine or any sausage that does not need to be cured for a long time, use sodium nitrite cure#1.
                      That's actually partially incorrect.
                      Whether it's wet or dry cure is irrelevant, it's purely down to the time span the meat will be left that determines the type of cure.

                      Nitrites are for fast cured items like standard bacon (not pancetta style) jerkies, smoked sausages, injected hams etc. Things that will be in cure for around a week or less.

                      Cures with nitrate in are for longer term projects. Salami, dried or semi-dried hams, pancetta, etc

                      And the reason why is this:

                      Nitrite reacts directly with the meat (the exact chemical process is listed many times on the forum, so I won't repeat it here) and is used up.

                      Nitrate is gradually broken down over time by bacteria, or oxidation to form nitrites - which then react with the product. This maintains a trickle down effect and keeps a working nitrite environment in the product being cured.

                      Nitrite is also a very good anti-bacterial agent. One reason I'm sceptical that it's bacteria that breaks the nitrate down -but that's a debate for a whole nother thread.
                      The nitrite is there for several reasons.
                      1) To kill non-beneficial bacteria and molds
                      2) to fix the haemoglobin and give that cured red/pink colour and flavour.

                      But as far as jerky goes:- you do not need a cure with nitrate in. It won't hurt any if it does contain nitrate, but regardless of whether you use a wet or dry cure - what's necessary is a purely nitrite based cure salt.

                      Jerky in a wet cure/marinade will cure in a matter of hours and continue curing during the drying process. IT won't take much longer with a dry rub/cure as that will draw the moisture from the meat, dissolving the cure and producing a wet cure anyway.
                      Either way for thin meat it is a very fast process - and only ever requires Nitrite based curing salts.

                      Denis:
                      1 ts of sodium nitrite per 5 pound of meat.
                      I presume you mean you use 1 tsp cure #1 - if not that's MASSIVE overcuring and potentially extremely dangerous.
                      I also presume you mean you use 5 grams.

                      I don't want to get too complicated here, but 4 grams/approx 2/3 tsp pure sodium nitrite is a LETHAL dose for a human adult. No ifs or buts - you consume 4 grams of sodium nitrite it'll kill you.
                      For this reason commercially blended curing salts were developed. Cure#1 is only 6.25% nitrite and is still only use at a rate of 2.5 grams per kg/2.2lb of meat.
                      If you were to use 1 tsp approx 7gms of pure nitrite for 5lb of meat. The vast majority of that nitrite would stay unreacted and would not be broken down into non-toxic byproducts. Jerky is not traditionally heated to the degree that would cause the nitrite to break down and That would leave you with an extremely toxic jerky.
                      Wouldn't kill you unless you ate the whole batch inside a couple of days - though it could potentially kill a small child or dog that got into the batch and ate more than they would usually. But it could make you very ill and potentially cause liver, kidney or bone marrow damage as well as damaging your blood system.

                      So while it might seem a bit pedantic, there are two very important conventions we should all use when dealing with curing salts.

                      1) ALWAYS WEIGH THEM
                      2) ALWAYS USE A COMMERCIAL, BLENDED CURING SALT and follow the instructions on the packet - NOT a random recipe you found on the internet that claims to be:- 'how great granpa made stuff, and he lived to 107 so it must be right' (unless it's on smoked-meat. com as we try and keep our members alive). Please, never use pure, analar or food grade nitrates or nitrites in your charcuterie. It isn't necessary and it is potentially putting you and your family at serious risk.

                      Follow those two rules and curing is a VERY SAFE, simple and enjoyable process.
                      I'm definitely not trying to scare you into avoiding it. Just follow the two cardinal rules: Weigh stuff, don't use pure nitrites or nitrates and it's completely safe and simple
                      Last edited by curious aardvark; 02-27-2013, 07:01 AM.
                      Made In England - Fine Tuned By The USA
                      Just call me 'One Grind'



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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Denis View Post
                        Use the right chemicals: for dry cure and dry sausage, use potassium(or sodium) nitrate (saltpetre) cure #2. .
                        I had asked about Potassium Nitrite in an earlier thread and, (if I remember correctly) the general concensus was that, it should be avoided in favor of the sodium Nitrite due to inconsistancies and unreliability.
                        JT

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Whisky Fish View Post
                          I had asked about Potassium Nitrite in an earlier thread and, (if I remember correctly) the general concensus was that, it should be avoided in favor of the sodium Nitrite due to inconsistancies and unreliability.
                          Potassium forms are no longer used that I know of... unless perhaps in some commercial applications. That includes "saltpeter". It's all the sodium based forms in general use. And in addition... just for clarity's sake- no one uses or can easily GET the pure nitrate/ites... they are diluted by like 94% salt. The pure chemical would be WAAY to concentrated for the home curer to measure accurately. Call them what they are...Cure 1 and 2.
                          In God I trust- All others pay cash...
                          Check out the Mad Hunky and products at https://madhunkymeats.com or https://www.facebook.com/MadHunkyMeats
                          Lang 60D, The Beast, 18 and 22 WSM, Brinkmann Backroads trailer, Weber 22 Kettle, gutted MB burning watts

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                          • #28
                            If you read my thread correcly, I did say to use cure #2 for dry sausage and rubs and #1 cure for brines or any sausage that does not need to be cured for a long time so I assumed that it was understood that I meant exacly what you have said. As far as cure #1 it is in effect 6.25 % nitrite and it is 2.5 gr. per kg so if you weight 1 ts of #1 cure you'll find out that it is between 5 and 6 gr. which is the right amount to use. The reason I use spoons instead of grams is because that is one less thing that I have to weight when mixing recipes. The laws in Canada alows for 200 ppm of nitrites; at 1 ts I am at the maximum so when I mix my ingredients I make sure that my ts is not overflowing full. When I am mixing brine though, it sure is conveniant to use spoons for mesurement than using the scale. :o)
                            Wisdom is intelligence shaped by experience.

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                            • #29
                              By the way I am a certified sausage maker. I studied at the Natioonal Meat Institute in Montreal. I have been a meat cutter since 1972 and I retrained as a sausage maker in 1986; not that I want to look like I am flounting here; I just want you to know that after being in the business for 53 years I have learned a thing or two. By what I have read, I can see that you know your stuff too, I am new to this blog and I din't know the level of knowledge people had in this blog. Hope to have good conversations with yous.
                              Wisdom is intelligence shaped by experience.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Denis View Post
                                By the way I am a certified sausage maker. I studied at the Natioonal Meat Institute in Montreal. I have been a meat cutter since 1972 and I retrained as a sausage maker in 1986; not that I want to look like I am flounting here; I just want you to know that after being in the business for 53 years I have learned a thing or two.
                                My old man used to say "If ya done it, it ain't braggin'"
                                New Braunfels Black Diamond
                                18.5" WSM
                                Weber Performer Deluxe Black
                                18.5 Weber Kettle
                                22.5 Weber Kettle
                                Maverick ET732
                                6, 8, 10 and 12' Lodge DO

                                Smoked Meat Misfits: "the change it had to come. We knew it all along. We were liberated from the fold, that's all" - The Who.

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