Trichinosis in Wild Hog??

[TasunkaWitko]

[Texas-Hunter]

Got to admit, this thread has legs.. Never would have thought it would go the distance..


Oh, and a great debate too...

[Mark R]

As I have said repeatedly, stay with what YOU know and are comfortable with!

[Bearcarver]

I give up for now, because I gotta go.
I proved my point---The USDA says 160* IT for Beef & Pork sausage. They don't distinguish between cured or uncured, so that means they're talking about all regular Beef & Pork sausage--cured or uncured.
The cure is not for how high you smoke something. The cure is there so you can smoke low & slow, and take a lot longer to get to 160* IT.

I'll keep searching, but it's hard to prove a negative about your rumor & gossip, when the USDA already proved my point.
Hopefully I put enough real info on this thread to keep unsuspecting newbies from getting sick, or worse.

Later,
Bear

[Texas-Hunter]

I'm not going to get into the debate and I don't have a link... But I have an attachment!! For your reading enjoyment...



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[Mark R]

#1 TH at this point you prolly should move this tread to somewhere more restricted to the general public. It kinda grew leggs it shouldn't have had.

#2 Bear, You are comparing apples and oranges. So as I have said repeatedly, stay with what you are comfortable with. Go with what you know.

#3 All of Charcutrie is not written in stone with a USDA ruling. There are safe guidelines. But you have to think about what you are doing at every step. You have to know where that step is leading to...and the consistences if you make a mistake.

4# If you are starting out, a "newbie", learn the principals and start simple. You cannot always trust a "tried and true" book recipe. You need to know if something does not sound or look correct. Go with what you know is correct.

[Mark R]

Thanks TH

File Type: pdf SausageFSIS.pdf
page 17

Dry sausages like
pepperoni are rarely smoked, and may or may not be cooked.
Today, some establishments choose to heat treat these dry
sausages as a critical step designed to eliminate E.coli. A moist
heat process may be used for some products. This process utilizes
a sealed oven or steam injection to raise the heat and relative
humidity to a meet a specific temperature/time requirement
sufficient to eliminate pathogens (e.g., 130F minimum internal
temperature for 121 minutes, or 141F minimum internal
temperature for 10 minutes).

Page 18

Semi-dry sausages are prepared in a similar manner, but undergo a
shorter drying period, producing a product with a moisture level of
about 50%. These products are often fermented and finished by
cooking in a smokehouse, at first at a temperature of approximately
1000F and a relative humidity of 80%. The temperature is later
increased to approximately 140 – 155F to ensure that
microbiological activity is halted. Since the moisture level of the
final product is about 50%, semi-dry sausages must be refrigerated
to prevent spoilage. Examples of semi-dry sausages include
summer sausage, cervelat, chorizo, Lebanon bologna, and
thuringer.

[Texas-Hunter]

Thanks TH

File Type: pdf SausageFSIS.pdf
page 17


Page 18

Happy to help....


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[Mark R]

Still think it outta be moved to Charcutrie....but what do I know....nuttin.

[Texas-Hunter]

Lets make sure we are in total agreement??

[Mark R]

Lets make sure we are in total agreement??

Yea right! ...

[TasunkaWitko]

charcuterie forum sounds like a good place for this, due to the advanced nature of the discussion. i see what mark is saying, but also understand john's concerns.

[Bearcarver]

I won't do the personal attacks about anyone's ignorance. That's not what I'm here for.

I'll just say that after hours & hours & hours of searching, I still haven't seen anything from the USDA about Beef & Pork sausage being safe cooked below 160*.
However after running into the number (152*) I asked about in the beginning of this thread, I see a lot of knowledgeable meat smokers go to 152*. Therefore I can assume 152* would be safe.
I have also not run into one single place where anyone is considering either a fresh sausage, or a sausage cured with Cure #1 or Tender Quick below 152* to be safe to be consumed, except earlier in this thread.
So I will from now into the future just make sure that any of my cured sausage gets to at least 152* instead of 160* IT, like it seems most of the smoking world does.
I will also say that no matter where this thread gets put, anybody who tells others that smoking sausage to below 152* IT, especially the ridiculous number of 140* is doing a disservice to all who read it. Hopefully nobody will read that and proceed to cure Beef and/or Pork Sausage with Cure #1 or TQ, and then smoke to only 140* before eating it.

The End,
Bear

[TasunkaWitko]

This is how I see it. It's not my intention to argue with anyone, but I hope that it brings the situation into a slightly-better focus.

a) Everyone should absolutely do what they are most comfortable doing.

b) Trichinosis is not killed by curing, but by cooking to a safe temperature; in some cases, deep-freezing for a safe length of time will eliminate the threat of trichinosis.

c) Deep freezing is ineffective for wild/game animals (other than pork) that are at risk for trichinosis; deep freezing can be effective for pork (domestic and wild), but there are variables to be aware of, according to the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichin...s/prevent.html

d) Fresh sausage made with ground pork, wild boar or any other trichinosis-potential meat should be cooked to 160 degrees.

e) Whole cuts of pork are "safely-cooked" at 145 degrees, according to the USDA:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/...table/CT_Index

f) The curing process effectively puts sausage on the same level as whole cuts where pathogens are concerned (excluding trichinosis, which needs to be cooked or frozen as mentioned above).

g) Cured meats are "safely cooked" at 145 degrees, according to the USDA:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/...afety/ct_index

h) Since meat with a potential for trichinosis still needs to be cooked before it is rendered safe to eat, cured sausages should be cooked to a minimum of 145 degrees.

i) A final temperature of 152 degrees is widely accepted by leading charcuterie experts for various reasons, one of those reasons being to ensure that all parts of the meat are at least 145 degrees.

j) All of the above assumes safe food-handling and storage practices.

Now, if any of the above is flat-out wrong, please let me know - but that's how I see it after following this discussion.

[Bearcarver]

Sounds OK to me, Ron!!

Bear