So is the dreaded red liner actually all that dreaded?

[rbranstner]

I am helping my buddy build two UDS smokers and he ended up with the dreaded red liners in both of them. When I built mine I didn't have the liner so I didn't have to deal with that. I was telling him that it needed to be removed but I couldn't remember for sure why exactly. I figured it was something with the possibility of toxins coming off of it or something similar to that. Needless to say I have been searching the forums this morning trying to get a better answer for him when I came across several threads that mention that the liner isn't actually toxic and it should be fine to leave it in there as anything that would be toxic should have burned out with the initial burnout. Without knowing exactly what his liner is made from I'm sure you can't give me a definite answer but is the general consensus these days that the liners are ok to leave in there if they are becoming a pain to try and remove? Thanks for you help!

[DDave]

The liner is epoxy phenolic resin. There seems to be an abundance of MSDS data on it in its liquid form prior to being applied as a drum coating but not so much in its solid form AFTER it has been applied to the inside of the drums.

I used to be in the "has to be removed to bare metal" camp. But after awhile based on more reading that I did, my attitude changed.

http://www.smoked-meat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15798

I would give it your best shot. Build the biggest effing fire you can in there. Drill the intakes first and stoke the fire with some forced air through the intakes if you can. Sounds like fun anyway, right?

Then give a reasonable effort to wirewheel what's left out then . . . start the build and do a couple of extended seasoning runs to get the inside good and coated with vaporized fat. Rub the insides down with Crisco or vegetable oil and make some smoke.

Disclaimer -- I am not a chemist nor a doctor nor do I play either on TV so my free advice is worth every penny that you paid for it.

I'll be smoking some spare ribs in mine this afternoon.

Dave

[L20A]

The liner is epoxy phenolic resin. There seems to be an abundance of MSDS data on it in its liquid form prior to being applied as a drum coating but not so much in its solid form AFTER it has been applied to the inside of the drums.

I used to be in the "has to be removed to bare metal" camp. But after awhile based on more reading that I did, my attitude changed.

http://www.smoked-meat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15798

I would give it your best shot. Build the biggest effing fire you can in there. Drill the intakes first and stoke the fire with some forced air through the intakes if you can. Sounds like fun anyway, right?

Then give a reasonable effort to wirewheel what's left out then . . . start the build and cook.

I'll be smoking some spare ribs in mine this afternoon.

Disclaimer -- I am not a chemist nor a doctor nor do I play either on TV so my free advice is worth every penny that you paid for it.

Dave

Sounds like excellent advice. The only thing that I can add to it is if you do burn & clean it & you are still worried about the liner remains then you could get some high heat paint & cover it up. After a while the smoke will cover it all with soot & creosote anyway.

[Richtee]

Then give a reasonable effort to wirewheel what's left out then . . . start the build and cook.

I would additionally recommend the standard seasoning run first, before cooking. Make it a long one and get the good coating on the inside :{)

[DDave]

I would additionally recommend the standard seasoning run first, before cooking. Make it a long one and get the good coating on the inside :{)

Ooops. Forgot that. Thanks Rich. I'll go back and edit the post.

Sounds like excellent advice. The only thing that I can add to it is if you do burn & clean it & you are still worried about the liner remains then you could get some high heat paint & cover it up. After a while the smoke will cover it all with soot & creosote anyway.

I don't think it would be a good idea to paint the inside of a UDS.

If you were worried about fumes from an epoxy phenolic resin liner, why would you paint the insides then heat it up? Even after painting only the outside, you can smell the paint when it warms up real good the first couple of times. And that is with Duplicolor Hi Heat Engine Enamel and primer.

Dave

[HawgHeaven]

Epoxy coating + fire + food... I'm a bit on the negative side. Get it oot of there the best you can.

Dammit! I need to build one of these contraptions. Period.

[DDave]

Epoxy coating + fire + food...

Don't that sound yummy, Phil?

I'm a bit on the negative side.

There a welding shop south of me where I get my expanded metal and stuff that sells drums for cooking. Not a typical UDS but open bottomed. Normal cooking method for those around here is to light off 10 pounds of charcoal on a disc plate and set the drum over it then hang chicken or tri tips. Temps I'm guessing at based on cook times and crispiness of the chicken skin in the top 1/3 of the drum HAS to be 400°+.

On the drums I have seen for sale in the front of the shop THE LINER IS STILL 100% INTACT. I asked the owner about it and he didn't seem to worried. Said no one had ever complained.

Get it oot of there the best you can.

I agree. And season it up real good. Rub the insides down with Crisco or vegetable oil and make some smoke. Then buy some solid hunks of fat (suet?) and set them on the grates for a couple of seasoning runs.

Dammit! I need to build one of these contraptions. Period.

Get on it Phil.

Dave

[Slanted88]

I laid mine on it's side & built a blistering hot fire & ran my blower to stoke it bad hot! Rolled it about every 15 mins. 1/4 turn & fed more wood...It burnt everything out. Let it cool down...washed/scrubbed the inside with Dawn & Scotch Brite.

[L20A]

Dave, you don't think the high heat pain will hold up? I painted the inside & out on a horiz smoker grill & did a seasoning smoke & burn in it & it held up fine & the paint didn't come off. I am not trying to argue at all but I am curious as to why you think it is a bad idea.

[curious aardvark]

the lining is fine.

No need to remove. Once the epoxy has hardened it's about as inert as a substance can be.

There's a thread from a couple years ago. I ended up doing some in depth research and emailing manufacturers of the epoxy.
it's safe.

[DDave]

Dave, you don't think the high heat pain will hold up? I painted the inside & out on a horiz smoker grill & did a seasoning smoke & burn in it & it held up fine & the paint didn't come off. I am not trying to argue at all but I am curious as to why you think it is a bad idea.

I'm not saying it won't hold up, I'm just wondering why if you are worried about fumes would you put something else in there that is going to make fumes when it is heated until it gets fully cured?

The fumes is why I think it is a bad idea. I think you'd be better off to get all of the liner out that you can, season the heck out of it and go from there.

I'm not trying to argue either and I have edited my post to be somewhat less strongly worded.

Dave

[BBQ Engineer]

Dave, you don't think the high heat pain will hold up? I painted the inside & out on a horiz smoker grill & did a seasoning smoke & burn in it & it held up fine & the paint didn't come off. I am not trying to argue at all but I am curious as to why you think it is a bad idea.

L20A,

A good seasoning is like a coat of paint. To add a fume inducing chemical is not necessary...spray that be-atch down with some veg oil and run it...Good to go!

[L20A]

I understand. Dave, I was not offended at all but I didn't want to come off like I was. All is good. I am banking all of this info away for when I build one for myself. Thanks.

[Slanted88]

Grinch...said it bestest...Stink, Stank, Stunk...

[ALX]

tink, Stank, Stunk...

could not say butter.........