New Twist on UDS

[hog warden]

Have a local KCBS sanctioned competition event in town, and having never been to one, thought it would be fun and informative to wander through the place. Mostly interested to see what smokers they use. A herd of drum smokers that were anything but ugly caught my eye, so stopped to investigate.

Yes, very much like a fully tricked out UDS in design, but with some interesting modifications. First is the basket. Key is solid sides and the heat deflector on top has bent tabs......that create a vortex of swirling heat and smoke along the lines of a convection oven. Top smoke stack also has a damper and experienced users run it almost closed.

Visited with one guy for nearly half an hour and he has been a consistent winner with his, and he had three with him. Looking around, about 1 in 3 competitors there were using these or something similar. Two guys running WSM's were in the process of buying the charcoal baskets with deflector plates to replace their baskets. So, lots of smokers in use but these were popular with the winners.

And these smokers can be purchased:

http://www.hunsakersmokers.com/

[Mark R]

Firebox is real different, makes sense. They a lil too purty fer me. Good info!

[HawgHeaven]

Wow, that's different! Me like the idear!

[Bbqgoddess]

OMG! did you see the pink one???? it matches my thermo.... I WANT ONE!!!

[THUMPERRRR]

them are nice...

[hog warden]

Forgot to mention......asked the builder how long the basket of charcoal (they use lump only and no drip pan) would last......about 8 to 10 hours. I asked if butts or brisket would be done by then......as you still have to pull all the racks to reload. No problem, the competition guys cooks his at between 275 and 300 on the thermo at the stack and butts will be ready to rest in 4 hours. Brisket not much longer. I asked what about low and slow and 225 etc, and the response was no need. Move it along and get them to around 150, foil.....then move them on to 200 to 210 range and probe for tender. Then put em to rest. With two racks, he seemed to think he could do 6 to 8 butts with no problem. Seemed like a lot to me.

On brisket, however, he said he normally ages his at least 2 weeks PAST the buy by date on the pack before any smoke. He is a winner so who was I to argue?

[Conumdrum]

Yea, keeping the Brisky at 38f for a while past the due date is a nice way to wet age the beef. Never know though until you open it to prep it if it was a good decision. I have bought them and went a week in the fridge, dunno what the sell by date was. No one died so it turned out good.

[DDave]

Interesting . . .

the competition guys cooks his at between 275 and 300 on the thermo at the stack

Stack temp is going to be considerably lower than grate temp. Which is probably why the burn times are shorter than a "conventional" UDS basket -- if there is such a thing.

I'd guess he's pushin' 350° to 375° plus at the grate especially at the start of the cook when the meat temp is coming up. I'll have to measure my vent temp on the next cook. Sounds like he is getting very good results at those temps too.

asked the builder how long the basket of charcoal (they use lump only and no drip pan) would last......about 8 to 10 hours.

I can get 12 hours + with the deflector on the bolts several inches above the charcoal basket.

First is the basket. Key is solid sides and the heat deflector on top has bent tabs......that create a vortex of swirling heat and smoke along the lines of a convection oven. Top smoke stack also has a damper and experienced users run it almost closed.

Basket sounds gimmicky to me. How much "swirling" of air are you going to get with a single exhaust that is way off center especially if you are running it almost closed? Seems like the airflow off the basket would be directed towards the exhaust since that is where the air is exiting the chamber. I would submit that the evening out of temps across the drum has more to do with the fact that there is a deflector of any type in play not necessarily a swirling vortex of air.

Having it all in one piece is convenient though.

Having said all of that, if he can sell them, more power to him. I'm guessing that if he is winning, he could sell pretty much anything to folks.

Dave

[hog warden]

In the interest of full disclosure, I'd never heard of this brand or the builder before I went, so hopefully nobody will think I'm shilling for them. I have no dog in this hunt. Just reporting in.

Anyway, on the basket, I was told the solid sides are a key feature. I mentioned my UDS basket had open mesh sides.........they frowned on that. Solid sides limit the air pathway through the charcoal basket from bottom to out the top. The heat and smoke coming past the tabs simply starts to swirl around. Nothing at all like a fan or anything but it is moving around. Benefit, according to them, is even heat throughout. No hotspots. Interesting also that they start these with little weber starter blocks on the bottom so the burn is from bottom up, vs. the top down Minion method most of probably use. The amount of charcoal in that basket when the start might not be but 75% or less of what I normally would use. It must do something right or else why would the WSM guys would not be upgrading to it.

Didn't think to ask, but all it would take is a phone call to see if they would sell those of us with a UDS just the basket? Otherwise, I don't see that much of a difference.

BTW, there is another competition grade smoker that is made in town by the Spice Wine guys. Attached is a photo of their competition setup. Those smokers run about $2,500 each and they have 3 of them mounted on a trailer that costs who knows how much. Ouch. But rather than 1 in 3, they were the only ones using theirs. They are good units, but unless you have money to burn and if you can compete with them head to head with something that costs far less, why not?

BTW, Spice Wine smokers are also vertical chambers. Charcoal basket in the bottom (separate door so you can reload), then a steel drip pan they expect you to put water in.....it has a drain with valve built in), then multiple pull out trays. Standard draft plate on the bottom, the bent chromed stack on top with gate valves for draft control is a nice touch. They are also fully insulated so hold and maintain heat in all conditions. They are really nice units.....but are not cheap. I know of one local restaurant that cooks on one daily and they put out a good product.

One other thing that said when I mentioned low and slow. Their term was "hot and fast". Something about cooking food vs. slow warming it. Smoke early on for color and flavor, then move it along. Actually, I have also talked to the Spice Wine guys a few months back. They said essentially the same thing when I asked about how to do a tender brisket. Bottom line, according to them, is it ain't going to be tender unless and until you get the internal temp up near 200.

[BYBBQ]

Comparing a Fancy UDS that costs $750 + cost of acc., ends up being about $900 to A Spicewine smoker for $2500 is comparing apples to oranges.

When I did a few comps and catering I had Jay at Spicewine build me a custom med for doing ribs. They are super insulated and cook fantastic, not anything like an uninsulated UDS, plus they hold 2-3 times the meat of a UDS.

If you look at any really good quality smoker( Lang, Yoder, Backwoods, & lots more) you'll find $2500 is not a bad price for the quality and size of them. And most of the UDS's you see at comps aren't those fancy $750-$900 ones. They are home built ones and usually used by people just getting into comps to keep their cost down. Their are some that do use UDS's, but most serious comp cookers and caterers are using much better rigs.

[DDave]

In the interest of full disclosure, I'd never heard of this brand or the builder before I went, so hopefully nobody will think I'm shilling for them. I have no dog in this hunt. Just reporting in.

No apology necessary. They are neat looking cookers. Appreciate you sharing the info.

It must do something right or else why would the WSM guys would not be upgrading to it.

Well the all-in-one aspect of it is pretty convenient. And they are winning so that helps sell whatever you are using. And there's a fair amount of marketing going on. Like this from their Features page.
http://www.hunsakersmokers.com/pages/smoker-features

High quality locking front caster keeps the smoker from rolling away. Made out of metal and high quality polymers. Simply push down with your foot to lock your smoker in place and pull up with your foot to release the lock.

Now I admittedly don't do comps, but have any of you comp cookers had issues with your smoker rolling away??

I'm not knocking the basket per se just curious about some of the claims from a thermodynamics point of view given the entire cooker design. Again, folks want to use what the winners are using thinking it will give them an edge. I'm guessing the reason they are winning is because they are good cooks, not because they are using some revolutionary new designed UDS. Like TH and others have said repeatedly -- It's the cook, not the cooker.

Bottom line, according to them, is it ain't going to be tender unless and until you get the internal temp up near 200.

Yup.

Again, I'm not challenging on your post or challenging you to defend their claims. My apologies if that's the way it seemed. I'm just commenting on the claims and some of the marketing. But like I said, if they can sell them for that then more power to them. I'm a HUGE fan of capitalism.

Dave

[hog warden]

They are super insulated and cook fantastic, not anything like an uninsulated UDS, plus they hold 2-3 times the meat of a UDS.

No argument from me. I buy steel from them now and then, and when I'm there I usually spend a few moments fondling the handles and dreaming. Would love to have one but as a home smoke guy only, can't justify the cost of one or face the music from the lady I'm married to if I did.

Have thought about leaving a number and when someone trades in a used unit for a bigger better one, have them give me a call.

BTW, while this was a KCBS event, it was local. Probably not more than 20 or 30 teams there total and yes, there were lots of big, high end smokers too.