Pulled pork left out 6 hours.

[Bbqgoddess]

Dave,
Thank you for posting all the information and my refresher course!
I am curious, do you take an internal temp on your cooks prior to the 4 hour mark? or at the 4 hour mark? say on a butt or a brisky? Im not being a smart arse either, I am just wondering. Because I get the whole out of the danger zone for non cured meats, I have NEVER checked internal temps at the 4 hour mark.... so am I just assuming that if I am running my smoke at 250* for say a 10 lb butt, its going to be 140* by the 4 hour mark?


Cue the jerky cure debate in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1. <-- we can't because Steve isn't here to start that debate! Did someone take over Steve's soap box? <3 walking dude.

[Bbqgoddess]

Alright I went to bed but this doesn't make sense at all NOW -

Lets start with a 10 lb butt - right? Im running my smoker at a solid 250* "we cook by temp not time" but if your planning a party figure 1.25 hours per lb to cook. or 12.5 hours.
So my kitchen's ambient temp is say 72* so I have had my butt on the counter and it is now also at 72* I pop it in the smoker and in 4 hours I need to be at the 141* mark. Which means I need to rise in temp 35.25* every hour, which now makes it a 6 hour smoke. Even if you count the stall time you still would need to be running super hot 350+ for that to happen in that time frame.
Help the blonde what am I missing?

[DDave]

Kelly,

That question comes up a lot and I always reference what bbally posted over at SMF many years ago.

Per bbally:
Unpunctured, intact muscle need only have the outside 0.5 inch pass through 140 degrees within 4 hours. Something easily done at temps of 200 F or more.

Now if you inject it, you have changed the "intact nature" of the meat and should treat it as ground meat or forced meat. This means the inside temp of the meat must pass through 140 within four hours. Usually requiring a temp of at least 275 F or better.

Going under 200 F without intact muscle generally requires that another method of cooking have been used.... Nitrate or Nitrite curing being most common. But lemon and lime juice under a method called ceviche also will do the job, though generally limited to fish.

Most common error that results in hospitalization of people consuming improperly handled intact muscle?

"inserting a temp probe into the intact muscle prior to the outside being above 140F or the probe not being wiped with sterilizer prior to insertion."

There was also a change to the "danger zone" in the 2009 Food Code
http://www.smoked-meat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6182

Biggest Change, the danger zone is now 41 F to 134 F verses the old.

Hope this helps.

To answer your other question, no I don't take an internal temp on my cooks prior to or at the 4 hour mark. I usually don't probe a butt or brisket until probably 5 or 6 hours into the cook. But then I don't inject. If I did then I'd probably check at the 4 hour mark.

Dave

[SMOKE FREAK]

Cue the jerky cure debate in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1. <-- we can't because Steve isn't here to start that debate! Did someone take over Steve's soap box? <3 walking dude.

I love the jerky cure debate but these days I spend all my excess energy on SV bashing

[Bbqgoddess]

Kelly,

That question comes up a lot and I always reference what bbally posted over at SMF many years ago.

Per bbally:
Unpunctured, intact muscle need only have the outside 0.5 inch pass through 140 degrees within 4 hours. Something easily done at temps of 200 F or more.

Now if you inject it, you have changed the "intact nature" of the meat and should treat it as ground meat or forced meat. This means the inside temp of the meat must pass through 140 within four hours. Usually requiring a temp of at least 275 F or better.

Going under 200 F without intact muscle generally requires that another method of cooking have been used.... Nitrate or Nitrite curing being most common. But lemon and lime juice under a method called ceviche also will do the job, though generally limited to fish.

Most common error that results in hospitalization of people consuming improperly handled intact muscle?

"inserting a temp probe into the intact muscle prior to the outside being above 140F or the probe not being wiped with sterilizer prior to insertion."

There was also a change to the "danger zone" in the 2009 Food Code
http://www.smoked-meat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6182



Hope this helps.

To answer your other question, no I don't take an internal temp on my cooks prior to or at the 4 hour mark. I usually don't probe a butt or brisket until probably 5 or 6 hours into the cook. But then I don't inject. If I did then I'd probably check at the 4 hour mark.

Dave

Dave! thanks for re-posting that. That right there are the keys to the castle.

Where is BOB BTW?

Mr L. I have noticed that, I am thoroughly enjoying that as well!

[Bearcarver]

I agree with everything DDave said, and my Safety Hero was always BBally.

Note: I Never inject, and the first reading I get is at 3 Hours when I sterilize & insert my Maverick Probe. It would be safe earlier, but I don't care what temp it is prior to 3 hours.

Bear

[DDave]

I love the jerky cure debate but these days I spend all my excess energy on SV bashing

Well if you need to change it up for a bit I'm sure Alex will join you.

Dave! thanks for re-posting that. That right there are the keys to the castle.

Where is BOB BTW?

Looks like he logs in pretty regularly. Just hasn't posted in awhile. I do miss his knowledge though. Thinking I might poach the contents of that thread from SMF and repost it here in the Food Safety section so it is easy to find.

Dave

[Bearcarver]

Looks like he logs in pretty regularly. Just hasn't posted in awhile. I do miss his knowledge though. Thinking I might poach the contents of that thread from SMF and repost it here in the Food Safety section so it is easy to find.

Dave

Great Idea Dave!!

I often do a search over there for answers from Bob. He has a lot of Great info, but it's sometimes hard to find specifics----Takes awhile to find but I trust him more than anyone else!!


Bear

[bbally]

I am still around. Just busy as all heck working

[DDave]

I was reading through some of bbally's posts on the other forum and wanted to clarify this . . .

So my kitchen's ambient temp is say 72* so I have had my butt on the counter and it is now also at 72* I pop it in the smoker and in 4 hours I need to be at the 141* mark.

The 4 hour time clock starts counting down ANYTIME the temp of the meat is above 40°. So however long the meat spent above 40° while it was sitting on the counter getting to 72° subtracts from that. Also if it got above 40° on the way home from the store, during processing, shipping etc -- it all subtracts from the 4 hours . It does not reset or start when you pop it in the smoker and start cooking it.

Again, intact whole muscle versus injected determines what part of the meat temp to be concerned with -- outside 1/2" or internal. Another reason not to insert a temp probe until well into the cook.

Also, I am not a food safety expert nor do I represent myself as such. I am merely passing on information that I have gotten from other sources and from people who know much more about the subject than I do. I realize that there are many exceptions to the general FSIS guidelines that come into play when using advanced techniques such as curing or sous vide where time held at a certain temp comes into play. I also realize that this is a public forum and people of ALL skill and knowledge levels may come across these posts. For that reason I always stick to the accepted forum norm which is to err on the side of safety when expressing an opinion or "giving advice" on food safety topics.

Dave

[Bearcarver]

I was reading through some of bbally's posts on the other forum and wanted to clarify this . . .



The 4 hour time clock starts counting down ANYTIME the temp of the meat is above 40°. So however long the meat spent above 40° while it was sitting on the counter getting to 72° subtracts from that. Also if it got above 40° on the way home from the store, during processing, shipping etc -- it all subtracts from the 4 hours . It does not reset or start when you pop it in the smoker and start cooking it.

Again, intact whole muscle versus injected determines what part of the meat temp to be concerned with -- outside 1/2" or internal. Another reason not to insert a temp probe until well into the cook.

Also, I am not a food safety expert nor do I represent myself as such. I am merely passing on information that I have gotten from other sources and from people who know much more about the subject than I do. I realize that there are many exceptions to the general FSIS guidelines that come into play when using advanced techniques such as curing or sous vide where time held at a certain temp comes into play. I also realize that this is a public forum and people of ALL skill and knowledge levels may come across these posts. For that reason I always stick to the accepted forum norm which is to err on the side of safety when expressing an opinion or "giving advice" on food safety topics.

Dave

Thanks Dave!!
That's all exactly what I've been going by, but then like I said, I got it all from Bob.

Bear

[dsgarner06]

While there is a risk for bacteria growth in 6 hours overnight... I would have probably have saved it. Heck you already had a guinea pig in your son eating it... and he didn't get sick... Bottom line is if you have ANY concerns, toss it.. if you want to take the risk, go for it. Me, I would go for it and have a nice stash of PP sammies for myself!

[HawgHeaven]

I am still around. Just busy as all heck working

Good to see you sir... glad you still observe here! I always enjoyed your posts and you sharing your knowledge!

[Bbqgoddess]

I am still around. Just busy as all heck working

Hi Bob!! How the heck are ya? We miss ya!

Dave thanks for reposting the safety information from the dark side. I haven't gone over there in what 9 years? don't see the need to. As far as recommending people eat or serve something that would be "un-safe" to eat I don't believe I did that nor was that my intent. Thanks again for reposting Bob's food safety knowledge, it was quite the refresher course on the why's of what we do, which have just become second nature at this point for most of us.

[DDave]

Dave thanks for reposting the safety information from the dark side. I haven't gone over there in what 9 years? don't see the need to.

I don't go there as a rule but wanted to make sure I was posting correctly what Bob had said.

But I did not inhale, er, I mean, log in. I just searched as a guest.

As far as recommending people eat or serve something that would be "un-safe" to eat I don't believe I did that nor was that my intent.

I don't believe you did nor intended to either. I'm sorry if there was something in my post that made you think otherwise.

Dave